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7.57pm
1 December 2009
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vonbontee said
“Into the Sky with Diamonds” said:
Vonbontee, your assumption that Lennon would have eventually moved on to heroin is certainly realistic.
Ono, however, was the enabler.
Another woman might have steered him straight, no?
Mm, I don’t think that’s necessarily the case. I mean, who’s to say that it wasn’t John who essentially got Yoko addicted? She wasn’t even a smoker when she met him! I’d just say their mutual adventurousness was to blame.
Also, Cynthia couldn’t get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn’t either. So I don’t see that any woman could’ve steered him straight if he didn’t want to be.
GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
7.59pm
1 November 2013
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Maybe if that women was a police officer and put him in jail then they could
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vonbontee
10.50pm
10 August 2011
Offline Vonbontee said, “Also, Cynthia couldn’t get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn’t either. So I don’t see that any woman could’ve steered him straight if he didn’t want to be.”
Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don’t have strong personalities – and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).
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vonbontee"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
11.39pm
1 December 2009
Offline Hm, I guess that sounds reasonable enough. Hey, there aren’t any anecdotes about John overindulging any ANYTHING between 1975 and 1980, are there? (I haven’t encountered any that I can recall; I haven’t read every John Lennon bio out there, though.)
GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
1.27am
10 August 2011
Offline How about sloth and house-husbandry?
"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
5.18pm
28 May 2014
Offline The way I see it, 
led John astray, George got angry about writing, Paul was mad at Phil Spector for The Long And Winding Road , and Richard didn’t care anymore.
By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.
5.20pm
1 November 2013
Offline Martha broke up the Beatles
Look at that diabolical stare. She is pure evil!
5.29pm
28 May 2014
Offline Martha broke up the Beatles
@Starr Shine? Obviously, you’re more of a cat person yourself.
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Starr Shine?By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.
6.34pm
8 November 2012
Offline Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, “Also, Cynthia couldn’t get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn’t either. So I don’t see that any woman could’ve steered him straight if he didn’t want to be.”Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don’t have strong personalities – and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).
This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John’s erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define “setting him straight?”
parlance
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thisbirdhasflown, Starr Shine?6.55pm
28 May 2014
Offline parlance said
Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, “Also, Cynthia couldn’t get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn’t either. So I don’t see that any woman could’ve steered him straight if he didn’t want to be.”Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don’t have strong personalities – and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).
This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John’s erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define “setting him straight?”
parlance
Parlance has a point. People are just putting the blame on Cynthia and May. It was John’s fault in the first place. Plus there’s other factors besides.
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parlanceBy hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.
7.03pm
Reviewers
1 November 2013
Offline parlance said
Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, “Also, Cynthia couldn’t get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn’t either. So I don’t see that any woman could’ve steered him straight if he didn’t want to be.”Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don’t have strong personalities – and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).
This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John’s erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define “setting him straight?”
parlance
That’s not what I took it as at all. It was simply stating that they honestly didn’t have as strong of a personality as John. John had a very strong personality, and I honestly agree with ISWD.
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7.12pm
28 May 2014
Offline IveJustSeenAFaceo said
parlance said
Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Vonbontee said, “Also, Cynthia couldn’t get John to stop doing massive quantities of acid, or getting way too drunk when he wanted to, and apparently May Pang couldn’t either. So I don’t see that any woman could’ve steered him straight if he didn’t want to be.”Cynthia and May Pang were (are) lovely women who nevertheless don’t have strong personalities – and Lennon needed a strong personality. A woman who measured up to John could have set him straight (IMHO).
This reasoning makes me deeply uncomfortable. It implies that Cynthia and May were lacking or that somehow John’s erratic behavior was their responsibility. They strike me as strong women in their own right, but John as a special case. Also, how do you define “setting him straight?”
parlance
That’s not what I took it as at all. It was simply stating that they honestly didn’t have as strong of a personality as John. John had a very strong personality, and I honestly agree with ISWD.
I think that they are al strong people, but you can’t put the blame on one in particular. It was John’s fault he did the drugs, and others could have set him straight too. You can’t put it all on Cynthia and May Pang.
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parlanceBy hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.
7.18pm
8 November 2012
Offline 
IveJustSeenAFaceo said
That’s not what I took it as at all.
How do you reconcile the comment about someone needing to “set him straight,” then? There was a definite comparison being made, and the inference was that Cynthia and May felt short: they were nice enough, but they weren’t enough to handle him. Which I think is unfair. I think most people would be unable/unwilling to deal with the pressures of fame, and in Cynthia’s case, raising a child, while also living with someone who was reportedly abusive on top of being a drug addict.
Also, I don’t associate the need to be set straight with strength.
parlance
7.27pm
28 May 2014
Offline parlance said
IveJustSeenAFaceo said
That’s not what I took it as at all.
How do you reconcile the comment about someone needing to “set him straight,” then? There was a definite comparison being made, and the inference was that Cynthia and May felt short: they were nice enough, but they weren’t enough to handle him. Which I think is unfair. I think most people would be unable/unwilling to deal with the pressures of fame, and in Cynthia’s case, raising a child, while also living with someone who was reportedly abusive on top of being a drug addict.
Also, I don’t associate being needed to be set straight with strength.
parlance
It’s very difficult to rehabilitate a drug addict. Don’t take Cynthia and May like it was their obligation. It wasn’t. Somebody else could have helped John to rehabilitate. They didn’t. There’s more to blame than just 2 people.
By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.
7.31pm
8 November 2012
Offline thisbirdhasflown said
It’s very difficult to rehabilitate a drug addict. Don’t take Cynthia and May like it was their obligation. It wasn’t. Somebody else could have helped John to rehabilitate. They didn’t. There’s more to blame than just 2 people.
I wasn’t saying John was weak for being addicted. My point is there’s a narrative that John was strong and it took strong people to handle him, and Cynthia and May were somehow lacking in character where Yoko wasn’t. And in this narrative, what people associate with “strength” is really nothing more than abusive behavior (emotionally and physically). That’s what I object to.
parlance
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thisbirdhasflown7.39pm
18 April 2013
Offline It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John. In her book, she writes, “I also hoped that I would never have to call Yoko and ask for her help because I did not have the ability to speak to John the way she did.”
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
7.40pm
8 November 2012
Offline Expert Textpert said
It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John.
Yes, I think a lot of abused women see themselves that way, and it’s unfortunate.
parlance
7.41pm
28 May 2014
Offline parlance said
thisbirdhasflown said
It’s very difficult to rehabilitate a drug addict. Don’t take Cynthia and May like it was their obligation. It wasn’t. Somebody else could have helped John to rehabilitate. They didn’t. There’s more to blame than just 2 people.
I wasn’t saying John was weak for being addicted. My point is there’s a narrative that John was strong and it took strong people to handle him, and Cynthia and May were somehow lacking in character where Yoko wasn’t. And in this narrative, what people associate with “strength” is really nothing more than abusive behavior (emotionally and physically). That’s what I object to.
parlance
Yes, I see your point. They did lack some character. And you can’t call “strength” abusive behavior. It’s just that they weren’t the only weak ones. There were several other weak members and Yoko fixed it. Even when you’re addicted, you can still be strong with strong people, and Yoko was strong.
By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.
7.43pm
18 April 2013
Offline parlance said
Expert Textpert said
It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John.Yes, I think a lot of abused women see themselves that way, and it’s unfortunate.
parlance
She said this at the beginning of their trip to LA, before he did anything.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
7.48pm
28 May 2014
Offline Expert Textpert said
parlance said
Expert Textpert said
It looks like May herself was concerned that she was not strong enough to handle John.Yes, I think a lot of abused women see themselves that way, and it’s unfortunate.
parlance
She said this at the beginning of their trip to LA, before he did anything.
There is truth in this, Expert Texpert. If she was abused, she may not have been strong enough to help John because she needed help herself.
thisbirdhasflown
By hook or by crook, I'll be last in this book.
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