Please consider registering
Guest
sp_LogInOut Log Insp_Registration Register
Register | Lost password?
Advanced Search
Forum Scope


Match



Forum Options



Minimum search word length is 3 characters - maximum search word length is 84 characters
sp_Feed sp_TopicIcon
Odd time signatures
24 November 2016
9.50am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4037
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
101sp_Permalink sp_Print

I’d say that the intro goes in 4/4 all the way trough. 4 bars in 4/4.

The first chord in the intro is not in the first beat, it’s in the upbeat .

The following people thank Shamrock Womlbs for this post:

Beatlebug

"I Need You by George Harrison"

24 November 2016
11.20am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4037
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
102sp_Permalink sp_Print

Shamrock Womlbs said
I’d say that the intro goes in 4/4 all the way trough. 4 bars in 4/4.

The first chord in the intro is not in the first beat, it’s in the upbeat .  

Sorry, the first chord IS in the first beat. The trumpets are in the upbeat of the first beat… a-hard-days-night-paul-10

but yeah, 4/4 all the way

The following people thank Shamrock Womlbs for this post:

Beatlebug

"I Need You by George Harrison"

13 November 2018
11.05pm
kevintimba
A Beginning
Members
Forum Posts: 4
Member Since:
18 June 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

On the Beatles Complete Scores, they’re extremely good at correctly notating the vocal syncopations of the melodies at the note-by-note level, but very wacky on interpreting them as time signatures. It’s like seeing the leaves but missing the forest. For example, Drive My Car is flat out 4/4 – here’s a youtube I made to prove it (see below). Complete Scores has this as having a bar of 9/8. And the problem with the Ringo Starr and the Beatles Beat book is that they rely on Complete Scores so the mistakes (there are many more in terms of notes than in terms of time sigs) get propagated. THAT SAID, I still love the Ringo book because – who cares about the notation anyway – just going song by song and hearing drummers talk about it makes you listen in a different way and it’s a gorgeously formatted book – it’s too bad that they have the notation errors but I’m still pleased with the book.

But back to Complete Scores – they should REALLY do a 2nd revision – so much of it is so right and so much more of it is so laughably wrong. The notes are nuts. Some of it sounds like they listened carefully to the master tapes (this was before all the isolations were available) and transcribed it perfectly; other parts are so wrong that any first year harmony student would laugh them out of the room. If you really want accuracy, the Kanayama youtube karaokes are much more accurate than Complete Scores and Galeazzo Frudua is absolutely, forensically, insanely accurate. He’s the absolute gold standard and studying the Beatles vocal harmonies, I’m convinced, is the secret to getting inside of their minds. For accuracy on guitar, the To a Tee DVDs are great and a youtuber named privettricker is quite good. But anything Frudua does is gospel.

The following people thank kevintimba for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed
14 November 2018
12.16am
Avatar
The Hole Got Fixed
A Dock at Southampton
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 8410
Member Since:
27 November 2016
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
104sp_Permalink sp_Print

I’ve noticed that – from memory, they even got the melody in Lady Madonna wrong, did they not?

Agree 100% on Frudua. He deserves much more than the current recognition he has. 

I’d be interested in a revised edition. Would that mean that they could include some bonus tracks (Free As A Bird , etc…) as well?

#AppleHoley2024: Make America Great For The First Time
2016 awards: Username-Badge.png 2017 awards: The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2017.png 2018 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2018.png 2019 awards: Ringo-2019.png 2020 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2020.png 2021 awards:The-Hole-Got-Fixed-2021.png
aus-flag-v-small.png

14 November 2018
2.08am
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5919
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
105sp_Permalink sp_Print

I’ve noticed that Ringo overlays a 3-2 clave rhythm over the 4/4 beat of the verse. 

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

19 November 2018
2.41pm
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5919
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
106sp_Permalink sp_Print

sir walter raleigh said
I’ve noticed that Ringo overlays a 3-2 clave rhythm over the 4/4 beat of the verse.   

My goodness I didn’t even mention what song I was talking about. No Reply

The following people thank sir walter raleigh for this post:

Beatlebug

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

27 May 2019
9.28am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4037
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
107sp_Permalink sp_Print

About the intro in Drive My Car , watching this video it seems that the riff starts at the “and” of the 4th beat…so if you just follow Paul’s count down and the drummer’s hihat will see it’s in 4/4 all the way. 

 

(dunno if the video will show up at the right spot…the count down begins at 1:19)

The following people thank Shamrock Womlbs for this post:

Beatlebug

"I Need You by George Harrison"

27 May 2019
1.46pm
Avatar
Beatlebug
Find me where ye echo lays
Moderator

Moderators
Forum Posts: 18219
Member Since:
15 February 2015
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
108sp_Permalink sp_Print

^I believe we established that it’s just weird syncopation, but it’s head-busting nonetheless. I have kind of the same problem with the intro of ‘Misty Mountain Hop’ by Led Zeppelin.

([{BRACKETS!}])
New to Forumpool? You can introduce yourself here.
If you love The Beatles Bible, and you have adblock, don't forget to white-list this site!
whiteheart.png
avatar_creative_signature_Hmm.pngStarSpangledBanner.png

27 May 2019
2.37pm
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4037
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
109sp_Permalink sp_Print

But…it’s not syncopated… we’ll have to restablish again, i guess a-hard-days-night-george-10

The following people thank Shamrock Womlbs for this post:

Beatlebug

"I Need You by George Harrison"

27 May 2019
6.42pm
Tangerine
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1276
Member Since:
30 April 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
110sp_Permalink sp_Print

Alan Pollack considers it to start with a pick up 8th note, and that’s good enough for me.

12 June 2019
9.14am
Avatar
Bongo
Somewhere In Time
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1918
Member Since:
28 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
111sp_Permalink sp_Print

Needs more Cowbell……

The following people thank Bongo for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl

  Screen-Shot-2022-10-04-at-7.52.07-PM.png   BEATLES Music gives me Eargasms!  apple01

26 June 2019
6.35am
Avatar
kurwabobrze
The Top Ten Club
Members
Forum Posts: 63
Member Since:
14 June 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
112sp_Permalink sp_Print

The intro of I’ve Just Seen A Face is in 6/8

The following people thank kurwabobrze for this post:

The Hole Got Fixed, Beatlebug
26 June 2019
3.51pm
Avatar
sir walter raleigh
In our yellow (IN OUR YELLOW) submarine (SUBMARINE AHA!)
Apple rooftop
Members
Forum Posts: 5919
Member Since:
26 January 2017
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
113sp_Permalink sp_Print

kurwabobrze said
The intro of I’ve Just Seen A Face is in 6/8

  

I think those are 4/4 triplets in the intro

"The pump don't work cause the vandals took the handles!"

-Bob Dylan, Subterranean Homesick Blues

"We could ride and surf together while our love would grow"

-Brian Wilson, Surfer Girl

27 June 2019
3.11am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4037
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
114sp_Permalink sp_Print

i wouldn’t consider  6/8 an odd time signature. It’s like a 2/4 but instead of two quarter notes you have two dotted quarter notes

The following people thank Shamrock Womlbs for this post:

kurwabobrze

"I Need You by George Harrison"

27 June 2019
8.03am
Tangerine
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1276
Member Since:
30 April 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
115sp_Permalink sp_Print

I assume the odd thing about it was a start in 6/8 that shifts to 4/4.  I think it’s made pretty clear by those 2 beats of intro though where the beat is throughout those triplets.  I think it just stays in 4/4.

The following people thank Tangerine for this post:

Beatlebug
27 June 2019
9.20am
Avatar
Shamrock Womlbs
Waiting for the van to come
Rishikesh
Members
Forum Posts: 4037
Member Since:
24 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
116sp_Permalink sp_Print

Then it’d be a 12/8:) Anyway, it would sound the same as if it is a 4/4 with quaver triplets. In the end i’d say it is just a 4/4

"I Need You by George Harrison"

27 June 2019
9.52am
Tangerine
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1276
Member Since:
30 April 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
117sp_Permalink sp_Print

I agree. Just stating that if there was a shift from 6/8 to 4/4 that would qualify as being odd, even if 6/8 by itself doesn’t.

19 July 2019
11.55pm
Avatar
ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl
The Kingdom of Marigold
Paris Olympia
Members
Forum Posts: 358
Member Since:
28 April 2019
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
118sp_Permalink sp_Print

Bongo said
Needs more Cowbell……

  

@Bongo 

The following people thank ThatWeirdBeatlesGirl for this post:

Bongo

Be groovy or leave, man.

-Bob Dylan

28 July 2019
11.19am
Avatar
Bongo
Somewhere In Time
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1918
Member Since:
28 March 2014
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline

Needs more Treble… 

 

  Screen-Shot-2022-10-04-at-7.52.07-PM.png   BEATLES Music gives me Eargasms!  apple01

4 April 2024
3.39am
Avatar
Sea Belt
Candlestick Park
Members
Forum Posts: 1146
Member Since:
7 November 2022
sp_UserOfflineSmall Offline
120sp_Permalink sp_Print
Probably the most famous pop example of 3/4 time on top of 4/4:
 

The following people thank Sea Belt for this post:

Rube

Now today I find, you have changed your mind

Forum Timezone: Europe/London
Most Users Ever Online: 2057
Currently Online: KyleKartan
Guest(s) 355
Currently Browsing this Page:
6 Guest(s)
Top Posters:
Starr Shine?: 16105
Ron Nasty: 12534
Zig: 9827
50yearslate: 8759
Necko: 8047
AppleScruffJunior: 7585
parlance: 7111
mr. Sun king coming together: 6394
Mr. Kite: 6147
trcanberra: 6064
Member Stats:
Guest Posters: 88
Members: 2905
Moderators: 5
Admins: 1
Forum Stats:
Groups: 3
Forums: 44
Topics: 5552
Posts: 383306
Newest Members:
Hello Poppet, TheDoctor, hawk567, beatleslover 69420, beatlemaniac 69
Moderators: Joe: 5711, meanmistermustard: 25136, Ahhh Girl: 22596, Beatlebug: 18219, The Hole Got Fixed: 8410
Administrators: Joe: 5711