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8.34am
27 April 2015
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Who knows! She pursued John alright.
Cyn was boring and if you read her books, I think you realise (or at least I did) that she gives a little too much importance to herself, but I don’t see her as not being trustworthy. If not anything else, she has always spoken kindly of John, even when he was alive.
EDIT: My main problem with Cyn is that she basically did nothing while John was ruining himself with the drugs. She did go about saying that drugs ruined their relationship, but what did she do about it? Nothing! Probably John wouldn’t have listened to her, but she should’ve tried enough. It’s like she accepted defeat even before she started to fight.
And then with Julian. He is the real victim in all of this. An absent father and a clueless mother! John’s treatment of his first family basically ruined Julian’s life. He still harbours resentment for his father, which is quite natural given the way he was treated, but then what did Cynthia do? Okay, she was there for him, but couldn’t she have tried to get him into therapy or get him some help? A child who goes through so much at that age is set to ruin his life if not given the necessary help. I don’t recall Cyn trying to get him any sort of help, and given that he said that he’d never have a family coz he is scared of doing what his father did to him, I don’t think he has gotten any help. If Yoko can be trusted, she has said that Julian has stayed away from her thinking it will hurt Cyn. More resentment in him towards people.
For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun
10.15am
18 April 2013
Offline P3pperish said
Who knows! She pursued John alright.Cyn was boring and if you read her books, I think you realise (or at least I did) that she gives a little too much importance to herself, but I don’t see her as not being trustworthy. If not anything else, she has always spoken kindly of John, even when he was alive.
EDIT: My main problem with Cyn is that she basically did nothing while John was ruining himself with the drugs. She did go about saying that drugs ruined their relationship, but what did she do about it? Nothing! Probably John wouldn’t have listened to her, but she should’ve tried enough. It’s like she accepted defeat even before she started to fight.
And then with Julian. He is the real victim in all of this. An absent father and a clueless mother! John’s treatment of his first family basically ruined Julian’s life. He still harbours resentment for his father, which is quite natural given the way he was treated, but then what did Cynthia do? Okay, she was there for him, but couldn’t she have tried to get him into therapy or get him some help? A child who goes through so much at that age is set to ruin his life if not given the necessary help. I don’t recall Cyn trying to get him any sort of help, and given that he said that he’d never have a family coz he is scared of doing what his father did to him, I don’t think he has gotten any help. If Yoko can be trusted, she has said that Julian has stayed away from her thinking it will hurt Cyn. More resentment in him towards people.
Again, very interesting. I had never read that Yoko said Julian avoided her for fear of hurting Cynthia. That certainly makes sense, as there are many, many photos of Julian, John and Yoko together throughout Julian’s life, and for that reason I never bought the story that Yoko forbade John to see Julian. The photo evidence paints a picture to the contrary. I think, if anything, the main reason for a troubled father/son relationship is just that Julian walked a fine line and didn’t want to upset anyone on either side.
Also, I think John liked to avoid Cynthia because he felt that she was pushy and still trying to pursue him (I got that from reading some stories in Fred Seaman’s book). And because he liked to avoid Cynthia, maybe he saw Julian a little less when he thought she might be around. I think he did see Julian (and Cynthia) more during the lost weekend because May pushed him into doing it.
When I say that I get the impression Cynthia is untrustworthy, I only mean as to giving an impartial account of what really happened between her and John. She strikes me as the type who likes to be a victim.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
11.18am
27 April 2015
Offline She said it with regards to not having a proper relationship with him after John’s death.
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the main reason was Julian walking a fine line, ET. That’s letting John get away with a lot. Besides, Julian was just a child then. John is 80% to blame for whatever went wrong, and 20% the others, including Yoko. As a parent herself, she should’ve pushed John into seeing more of Julian. And even if Cyn was being pushy, which I don’t think she was, he should’ve still tried to look past it for the sake of his son! More than anything else, he shouldn’t have gone around saying Julian was a Saturday night special, and came out of a whiskey bottle and other such things, knowing fully well that his son might hear/read those words, and so will the rest of the world. Every child likes to this his/her parents loved each other. And with John’s case, it wasn’t really a one night stand.
The only person who ever cared about trying to do something for their relationship when it wasn’t really her problem was May Pang. Showing that sort of maturity at her age, when she could’ve just frolicked around with John is worth a medal! And that’s more than what I can say for John, Yoko, or Cynthia.
And yeah, Cyn did play the victim.
For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun
11.24am
18 April 2013
Offline Well, Julian coming out of a whiskey bottle is how John saw it. I think he would not have married Cynthia had she not been pregnant. We would like to impose our own moral standards on the situation, but the truth is that it’s common to not really know one parent after a divorce.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
11.42am
27 April 2015
Offline Yea, okay, harmful truth is better than an useful lie. Whatever whatever whatever. I think John should’ve been more sensitive, full stop. Period. Exclamation mark! A lot of people might have come that way into this world, but not everybody’s parents’ words are front page news. And John seeing it that way is just ridiculous coz he had been sleeping with Cynthia since 4 years. He surely wasn’t any innocent who believed babies came from the moon, and all this after he saw what happened to Paul & Dot. Like Lewisohn says, they risked pregnancy from the start. Surely everyday wasn’t a Saturday.
Perhaps it isn’t uncommon, but that doesn’t mean it’s not wrong. And Julian just had to look around him to see how cruelly his father treated him by looking at Ringo & Maureen’s children. I don’t really see why anyone has to try and justify what John did to Julian. Whether I’m imposing my moral standards, or just speaking from my experience of reading Freud day in and day out, I don’t know. And I don’t care! But childhood is very fragile, and how a parent treats a child during those years is very important. And John was more than just cruel in his behaviour.
For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun
11.54am
27 April 2015
Offline Sorry for the double post, but I’ve often thought that John would’ve been a perfect case study for Freud. 
For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun
12.33pm
18 April 2013
Offline You’re right, John was very insensitive. He could have shown more kindness.
I have noticed something, though. People often look backwards at the 20th century and attempt to crucify its heroes by applying 21st century moral standards to their conduct. I don’t think this is productive.
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O Boogie"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
12.44pm
27 April 2015
Offline Probably, you’re right. That’s why it’s interesting to speculate what John would’ve done to right his wrongs had he lived. His ex Thelma said its hard to imagine a 70 yr old John as the spark would’ve gone out. But I’d like to think he would have made this world an interesting place, even if he would’ve been sued a 100 times!
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For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun
2.41pm
3 November 2015
Offline Annadog40 said
Cyn was a doormat and didn’t challenge John in anyway whatsoever. And she was never suited to John.
I wonder if she would of been more suited to Paul? Paul liked the classic 50’s ideal and was frustrated with Jane for pursuing her own career.
He gave her a flower when John filed for divorce and told her he didn’t know why he was acting so strange. This strikes me as an odd thing to do because most men will side with their friends during an occurrence like that. So the whole proposal doesn’t surprise me.
I also agree about the mother comment. John and Yoko may have loved each other, but just because you love someone, it doesn’t make them the “ideal person.”
Whatever the overall opinion, it is evident that Julian must have felt conflicted and pressured as a child. The question is why would John be insensitive in the first place? Why is that in his character? If he was young or selfish, why? Plus, it’s not like he’d see him that often anyway. Did the way he treated Julian have anything to do with his own childhood or is that just Freud speaking? He seemed to have corrected himself with Sean. It seems unfair if he was only kinder to Sean because he loved Yoko.
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2.53pm
1 November 2013
Offline
Maybe it had to do with the fact that he was older and more ready to deal with a child then he was during his Beatles years.
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2.03am
27 April 2015
Offline Perhaps. But in doing so, John just made Julian feel more neglected and unwanted. John treated Julian like his parents treated him, probably making him feel the exact same way he felt (neglected). I guess he must have felt the same way when his mother went to being a so so housewife from a bohemian to bring up his half-sisters, and he did the exact same thing.
I really don’t see John’s behaviour and treatment of Julian defendable in any way, but that’s just me I suppose.
Oooh @KaleidoscopeMusic ! I can’t really see Paul & Cyn together. But if it did happen, I guess I would’ve really liked to be a fly on the wall at the Abbey Road studios And Let it be DVD would’ve been ten times more interesting.
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For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun
5.33pm
6 February 2016
Offline For sure Yoko loved John Lennon in some way, for his look (John looked so attractive in his prime) , his fame, his money….But I doubt it was an unconditional love. I think Dullblog has some very nice discussions already: http://www.heydullblog.com/yok…..d-yours/
1. She controlled him.
She kept him apart from his friends/relatives/etc, used all kinds of weird occult things to manipulate him. I believe the isolation and too much dark magic had poisoned John’s soul, making it more difficult for him to judge on his own and self-fulfill. And remember, when she and John separated during 73-74, she even requested May Pang to “fill in” for her – to make sure she was not threatened by women/men who were more attractive than her, and that John would be still reachable, still infatuated with asian girl, etc, how evil was that!
2. She exploited him.
Of course she has every right to make best use of John to sell herself while he was still alive (although this somewhat ruined John’s reputation). But I dont see she love him by existing his bloodstained clothes, glasses, selling his everything, after he died.
3. She did not take good care of him
John was ridiculously thin right before he died, definitely not in good (mental/physical) health. There were rumors that Yoko barely had time for him during his last days, and that she had other secret lover. Lots of different sources have shown John being lonely and unhappy toward the end of his life. John needed a lot of attention, he used to say Paul wasn’t there whenever he needed him the most, I guess he would say the same thing about Yoko if they broke up.
4. She treated Julian and John’s other relatives badly
This is definitely not unconditional love.
5. She brought out the worst of him. At least that’s what I have seen.
Please forgive my poor English, btw….
Love is a flower you got to let it grow.
1.21am
27 April 2015
Offline Welcome to the forum tomomi . Hope to see you more around here. Your English isn’t poor in any way 🙂
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For tomorrow may rain, so I'll follow the Sun
8.39pm
18 April 2013
Offline I wouldn’t say she brought out his worst. Imagine , Woman and Oh, Yoko! are some of his best songs and he owes them to her. She also co-wrote Give Peace A Chance and Julia .
Yoko was not the only one interested in the occult. When they needed to stock up the Cold Spring Harbor house with books, John purchased tons of books from the new age book store. He was very excited about reading H. P. Blavatsky.
John was thin because of his macrobiotic diet, which was his choice. He wasn’t a prisoner. He came and went as he pleased.
And Julian and the other Beatles visited the Dakota.
As to Yoko having affairs, John knew and didn’t care because he had done the same.
It looks like someone has been reading slanted material written by Yoko haters. I’ve read some of it, too.
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7.54pm
28 March 2014
Offline 
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BEATLES Music gives me Eargasms! 
6.32am
2 March 2015
Offline She definitely nursed a lot of egoism in John’s art during the 70s, but I think that was already there, really. Just hadn’t been brought out yet.
4.37pm
28 March 2014
Offline Happy Birthday YOKO! 
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2.56pm
3 November 2015
Offline Why hasn’t Yoko remarried since John’s death?
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3.02pm
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1 May 2011
Offline I doubt she wants to and there is no reason why she should unless she does.
"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
9.20pm
27 February 2016
Offline meanmistermustard said
I doubt she wants to and there is no reason why she should unless she does.
I agree. I read an interview with her last year somewhere online and she said she has had a “few men” since John but I doubt she’s into anything serious.
As others here have pointed out, I don’t think she’s capable really. Her focus is on herself, her art, her recycled muzak IMO. As she said way way back when she first got with John, men in her life were always assistants; like Toshi and Tony. And Sam.
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