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9.55pm
18 April 2013
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Zig said
Expert Textpert said
Zig said
Expert Textpert said
If Cage “largely ignored” Yoko, then why did he invite her to go on tour with him in 1962, and why are there recordings of the performances?
http://www.slate.com/blogs/bro…..ears_.htmlThat would be a great question for Mr. Gould. Could it be that those two performances were the “two failed attempts at shows in NY” that he referred to? I’m not sure why she would leave NY to go to London by invitation (only after Cox wrote about her in a British art magazine, mind you) if the shows were successful.
I understand your defense of Yoko because I know you admire her. More power to you. I still maintain she would have faded away into further obscurity had she never met John. Horses for courses.
No, the performances with Cage took place in Japan.
Thanks for the correction. If that is the case, these could be the performances Gould cited “where her work was rudely received by Japanese avant-gardisits causing her to attempt suicide.” It would certainly fit better into the timeline. And, to clarify another item, she was largely ignored during the perfomances held in the loft. It did not say by whom, Cage or otherwise.
I want to make my position clear. Whether or not I get into her art is irrelevant – for the record, I do not except for a couple of songs on the SINYC album she made with John. To be fair, I have not heard or seen everything she has ever performed. But the majority of what I have seen/heard gives me no indication that I would enjoy any more of it.
One point I was trying to make is that I do not believe she was anywhere near as “famous” prior to meeting John as we have all been led to believe. Another point I was trying to make is that there was a pattern made by Yoko of fornicating her way into the public eye.
Expert Textpert said
It just seems very clear to me that people will say anything to support their dislike of Yoko Ono…It’s revisionist history, the same old racist, misogynist bile being recycled under a new, politically correct banner.
Wow. Where do I start with this? Let’s try here. I did not get the impression that Gould disliked Yoko. He did not say that any of these events were biased by gender or race. He simply reported, over two or three pages of a 606 page book, what went on over this short period of time in Beatles and cultural history and moved on. He did not belabor any of this as one would expect from someone with an axe to grind. One could wonder is it revisionist history or the debunking of myths perpetuated over time? There does seem to be evidence that she lied about not knowing who the Beatles and John were. What else did she lie about?
For the record, I do not hate or like Yoko. I’ve made it clear that I am simply aware of her existence. I will give her credit for making John happy because all indications say it is so. Coincidentally, while listening to music last night in shuffle mode, ‘Oh Yoko!’ was played and I cranked it up. I love how happy John sounds while singing this song.
I respect you and your admiration for Yoko ExTex. I am not trying to change any of that – simply offering up information that I came across that is contrary to what you wrote about her fame. You or anyone else can take it or not.
Perhaps he shouldn’t say she was “largely ignored” if he doesn’t say who was doing the ignoring, but it seems to me that he is implying Cage ignored Yoko. It just seems to me that thereis an underlying bias against Yoko in the text when you deconstruct it.
The evidence shows that her work was respected by other artists. I never said that her work was accepted by the masses. I think that it takes a certain kind of person to appreciate her art.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
10.14pm
18 April 2013
Offline If you look at the excerpted text, you will see that the author uses such phrases as “represent herself,” “struggled to be taken seriously,” and “manipulated” to describe Yoko’s actions.
He also refers to her actions as “antics.”
And when he writes of other people’s responses to her actions he uses phrases such as “viewed with suspicion.”
You can clearly see his anti-Yoko bias.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
10.25pm
18 April 2013
Offline That being said, if people ripped my hair and yelled insults at me, critics ridiculed my work, and journalists wrote articles saying I was ugly, I might be a bit concerned with how I was perceived or be tempted to try to control what was written about me if I could.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
11.41am
17 October 2013
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Forgive me but I believe the title of this thread…….is, ‘Did Yoko Love John?’
While a discussion of Yoko’s previous relationships may have a bearing on how she viewed being in a loving relationship with John, it could be countered that John had not excelled in that department himself…….And yet the question isn’t ‘Did John Love Yoko?’ We all know he did. It doesn’t need arguing, claim or counter claim..We know from his actions and his art. We know it in our being.
An appreciation of Yoko’s art before she met John is irrelevant to that question……..Perhaps poems she’d written to him, or music she’d made to show her love for him after they met and before he was killed might help answer the question that is actually being asked.
Love is a wonderful stimulant to set the creative juices flowing………John’s work, for better or worse abounds with loving references to Yoko. I’m not as familiar with Yoko’s work as Ron Nasty and Expert Textpert claim to be…………….. Presumably they can show us how as an artist Yoko took her feelings for John and turned them into wonderful declarations of love for him.
3.23pm
18 April 2013
Offline Thanks for getting us back on topic.
I’m Your Angel is a declaration of love for John.
So are Let Me Count the Ways and You’re the One.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
3.41pm
Reviewers
14 April 2010
Offline Zig said
I am…simply offering up information that I came across that is contrary to what you wrote about her fame. You or anyone else can take it or not.
Expert Textpert said
It just seems to me that there is an underlying bias against Yoko in the text when you deconstruct it.
So, you choose not. I get it and would probably be defensive as well if someone questioned someone I like and respect. Let’s just agree to disagree. I am moving on.
The following people thank Zig for this post:
parlance, Expert TextpertTo the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.
4.53pm
18 April 2013
Offline I see what you did there. I’m Moving On is a Yoko Ono song,
The following people thank Expert Textpert for this post:
Zig"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
10.57pm
Reviewers
14 April 2010
Offline Oh my God , that’s funny. My first inclination was to find a title of one of her songs or visual performances that would fit there, but I didn’t. Looks like I did it by accident. Nice catch, my friend.
The following people thank Zig for this post:
Expert TextpertTo the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.
8.10am
17 October 2013
Offline Expert Textpert said
Thanks for getting us back on topic.
I’m Your Angel is a declaration of love for John.
So are Let Me Count the Ways and You’re the One.
Based on those songs……..and all you know about Yoko………….A simple question and I’m looking for a simple ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ answer…. Do you honestly, in your heart of hearts and without any reservation believe she truely loved John?
2.16am
19 April 2010
Offline no
"She looks more like him than I do."
5.29am
1 December 2009
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Did John love Cynthia?
Did Joanie love Chachi?
Did I Love Lucy?
The following people thank vonbontee for this post:
parlanceGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
11.18am
17 October 2013
Offline vonbontee said
Did John love Cynthia?Did Joanie love Chachi?
Did I Love Lucy?
Please feel free to start those topics………..
……..and consider replying to this one.
2.44pm
18 April 2013
Offline vonbontee said
Did John love Cynthia?
Did Joanie love Chachi?
Did I Love Lucy?
Did Yoko love John? Yes.
Did John love Cynthia? No.
Did Joanie love Chachi? Yes.
Did you love Lucy? Only you can answer that.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
2.48pm
18 April 2013
Offline I think that when John cheated on Yoko (on election night when McGovern lost and he was really drunk at that party), Yoko was very hurt by it, and this was a game-changer in their relationship.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
6.19pm
1 December 2009
Offline Maybe somebody can start a “Did Heather love Paul?” thread where whoever wants to, can say nasty things about her, including many tasteless amputee jokes.
The following people thank vonbontee for this post:
parlanceGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
6.24pm
1 November 2013
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What is love?
The following people thank Starr Shine? for this post:
Von Bontee
6.27pm
8 November 2012
Offline vonbontee said
Really, though, nothing anybody posts on this thread is apparently going to change anybody’s firmly-engrained opinion as to this woman’s state of mind/inner being. In other words, I think asking “Did Joanie love Chachi?” is more likely to get a consensus.
That was exactly my point earlier. I don’t know what anyone is expecting to accomplish here.
Clarification: vonbontee edited his post after I thanked/quoted him.
Annadog40 said
What is love?
*bobs head to the side*
parlance
The following people thank parlance for this post:
vonbontee6.58pm
1 December 2009
Offline Damn, now I’ve gone and deleted my previous post, in which (challenged by Atlas) I basically said “YES, dammit, I’m sure there was love of a sort for the first few years anyways.”
GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
7.00pm
1 November 2013
Offline vonbontee said
Damn, now I’ve gone and deleted my previous post,
You can do that? 
7.11pm
18 April 2013
Offline parlance said
vonbontee said
Really, though, nothing anybody posts on this thread is apparently going to change anybody’s firmly-engrained opinion as to this woman’s state of mind/inner being. In other words, I think asking “Did Joanie love Chachi?” is more likely to get a consensus.That was exactly my point earlier. I don’t know what anyone is expecting to accomplish here.
parlance
I hope to use my superior arguing skills to accomplish the conversion of Yoko haters.
"If you're ever in the shit, grab my tit.” —Paul McCartney
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