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3.50pm
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14 April 2010
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Except for those closest to him, nobody knows if George really wanted to do the anthology documentary. I will say this as someone who has watched it dozens of times. He seemed to be very forthright and honest and had a lot of fun doing it. His sense of humor was prevalent throughout and he did not seem to be hell bent on mugging for the cameras. If he did not want to do it, he hid it well.
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Bongo, bewareofchairs, So Fine Sunshine, O Boogie, all things must pass, star1262To the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.
7.25pm
18 December 2012
Offline georgiewood said
I’ll bet everybody has their pet forumpudlians; you know what I mean: when you see an unread post pop up from certain people, you look forward to enjoying it. @bewareofchairs is one of those for me. Always thoughtful, informative and well-documented. Wish there were more to enjoy.
I’ll bet everybody has their pet forumpudlians; you know what I mean: when you see an unread post pop up from certain people, you look forward to enjoying it. @bewareofchairs is one of those for me. Always thoughtful, informative and well-documented. Wish there were more to enjoy. 
Aw, thank you. That’s really sweet of you to say. 
I love having discussions on this forum because everyone is so friendly and respectful.
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Beatlebug, georgiewood8.38pm
17 October 2013
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I was thinking last night how unequipped I am to discuss George…I’ve read books on John, Paul, The Beatles, and George Martin……..But George singularly?
I’ve seen the film and listened for hours to his music and teared up at the farewell concert……. But I don’t understand him as well as I think I do John and Paul.
Last night I asked myself an honest question…….. If there had been no John or Paul in 1962……. and George had been the lone creative talent in a group that contained Ringo and two makeweights on rhythm and bass would he have gotten anywhere much? You can take a view but I don’t reckon we would have ever heard from him……
What I’m saying is I understand just how important George was to the Beatles…How much he added to the group but I feel he benefited from the ride with John and Paul more than they did with him and perhaps should have been more grateful to them than he could appear at times in Anthology or elsewhere.
Whatever, I love George for what he was and that’s that……
I’m now going to listen to ‘All Those Years ago’….his hearts on his sleeve in that one…
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georgiewood, Beatlebug, Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<, star1262, KyleKartan9.00pm
22 September 2014
Offline I agree. In the same way that John Paxson and Steve Kerr were nice players, but where do you think they would have been without Michael Jordan drawing all the attention of the defense and setting them up for open jumpers?
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C.R.A.I say in speeches that a plausible mission of artists is to make people appreciate being alive at least a little bit. I am then asked if I know of any artists who pulled that off. I reply, 'The Beatles did'.
Kurt Vonnegut, Timequake, 1997
9.32pm
19 September 2010
Offline To the actual question – we don’t know. But it doesn’t get done if he says no.
To the point that George was a lucky person to know McCartney and Lennon – just stop. He was a Beatle. We will never see into the internal dynamics, and everything else. Whatever we see is absolutely nowhere close to the whole story, and their contributions are nowhere close to being seen by everyone. Please stop with this revisionist “Well, it was really Paul and John’s band” crap. Please.
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all things must passAs if it matters how a man falls down.'
'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.
10.29pm
18 December 2012
Offline Zig said
Except for those closest to him, nobody knows if George really wanted to do the anthology documentary. I will say this as someone who has watched it dozens of times. He seemed to be very forthright and honest and had a lot of fun doing it. His sense of humor was prevalent throughout and he did not seem to be hell bent on mugging for the cameras. If he did not want to do it, he hid it well.
I agree. There were tense moments, but I genuinely got the impression that George came out of it feeling glad he did it. It probably brought back bad memories, but it also may have reminded him of all the good times which were forgotten after all the suing – like when he watched the footage of This Boy in LitMW.
It’s interesting how George’s silence/expressions can easily cause people to project certain emotions onto him. When this Hello Goodbye video was posted, many people assumed he was miserable. However, if you pay close attention, he’s smiling and laughing and shows his own quirky sense of humour. He’s having fun, but he’s more subtle about it than Paul and John.
Wigwam said
I was thinking last night how unequipped I am to discuss George…I’ve read books on John, Paul, The Beatles, and George Martin……..But George singularly?I’ve seen the film and listened for hours to his music and teared up at the farewell concert……. But I don’t understand him as well as I think I do John and Paul.
Last night I asked myself an honest question…….. If there had been no John or Paul in 1962……. and George had been the lone creative talent in a group that contained Ringo and two makeweights on rhythm and bass would he have gotten anywhere much? You can take a view but I don’t reckon we would have ever heard from him……
What I’m saying is I understand just how important George was to the Beatles…How much he added to the group but I feel he benefited from the ride with John and Paul more than they did with him and perhaps should have been more grateful to them than he could appear at times in Anthology or elsewhere.
Whatever, I love George for what he was and that’s that……
I’m now going to listen to ‘All Those Years ago’….his hearts on his sleeve in that one…
I feel that way about John and Paul. I mean, I’ve read a lot about them just because they tend to get focused on the most, but I’m not as familiar with their interviews, solo careers, and personal stories as their fans would be.
I agree with you, and I think George would too:
“From the start, I knew Paul had a knack for composing tunes and words to go with them. Nothing great, mind you, at the time, but I knew that he, more than I, could go far in the music world if he really applied himself.” – Men Only magazine (1979)
However, IMO Paul and John’s songwriting abilities would’ve only taken them so far. They might’ve been successful, but it wouldn’t be nearly to the extent of The Beatles, and who knows how long it would’ve been able to last? There were so many other factors which George and Ringo brought to the table to make the band unique and stable (for a while anyway). George as a guitarist alone played a major role in creating The Beatles’ sound, and he was similar enough to John that John was able to indulge his adventurous side with him. If it had just been Paul, that may have caused difficulties very early on.
As for George himself, I think he is the most misunderstood Beatle because biographers often don’t go to the effort to show how complicated he was. They just cherry-pick the same quotes to portray him as this bitter guy who hated Paul and The Beatles with every ounce of his being, but if you read some of his lesser-known interviews you realise there’s more to him than that. George has said that he’s very grateful for everything Paul and John taught him. I’ll try and find the quote I’m thinking of and post it for you. Like I said before, he was in a unique position because to him Paul and John were just normal people. Maybe he was incredibly impressed by them, but felt that since everybody on earth saw them as Gods among men, it was his job to bring everyone back down to earth. Paul even mentioned this when George died:
“George was always the one who brought John and me back down to earth when we were about to get too big-headed. Without George I wouldn’t be who I am today.” – Stern magazine (Dec. 2001)
EDIT: Plus, I’d say it was fair for George to hold back praise if only because John and Paul never gave him the credit he deserved. John made such a fuss about George not mentioning how much he influenced him in his book, but how often did John credit George for providing major contributions to John’s songs? And correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Paul only start giving him credit for the riff in And I Love Her after he died?
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Wigwam, Beatlebug, ewe211.05pm
17 October 2013
Offline Reading this I was reminded just how important George’s harmonies were too…… He was the perfect foil for the two of them….and matched them in the end.
We were all so lucky they did find each other…….Its a shame that All Things Must Pass ……
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bewareofchairs, Beatlebug, C.R.A., star1262, KyleKartan12.37am
27 March 2015
Offline
mr. Sun king coming together said
To the actual question – we don’t know. But it doesn’t get done if he says no.To the point that George was a lucky person to know McCartney and Lennon – just stop. He was a Beatle. We will never see into the internal dynamics, and everything else. Whatever we see is absolutely nowhere close to the whole story, and their contributions are nowhere close to being seen by everyone. Please stop with this revisionist “Well, it was really Paul and John’s band” crap. Please.
But @Wigwam didn’t say that at all. The Beatles wouldn’t have been the Beatles without each of the elements that made them famous. Take John, Paul, George, Ringo, Brian, or George M. out of the equation and you’ll end up with a different product.
However, I do agree we may never have heard (much) from George without the Beatles. Simply because he probably didn’t feel that need to be in the limelight as much as John and Paul did. If they hadn’t dragged George along for the ride, he might not have started that journey at all.
Also, he did learn a lot from them about songwriting. His guitar playing evolved a lot too, but he didn’t change his style much until he was forced to by the more experimental direction the band took. And then he influenced the band’s style too, when he got involved in Eastern music and philosophy.
He added his own bit of magic to that mix, and the Beatles would have been a completely different band without George. I’m not so sure they would have hit the big time without him in the band either. They all needed each other, and I believe none of them would’ve been major celebrities on their own; including John and Paul.
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Wigwam, Beatlebug, star1262, KyleKartanFormerly Known As JPM-Fangirl --
2016
'Out There' - 07-06-2015 - Ziggo Dome Amsterdam -- 'One On One' - 12-06-2016 - Pinkpop Festival Landgraaf
1.03am
19 September 2010
Offline JPM-Fangirl said
mr. Sun king coming together said
To the actual question – we don’t know. But it doesn’t get done if he says no.To the point that George was a lucky person to know McCartney and Lennon – just stop. He was a Beatle. We will never see into the internal dynamics, and everything else. Whatever we see is absolutely nowhere close to the whole story, and their contributions are nowhere close to being seen by everyone. Please stop with this revisionist “Well, it was really Paul and John’s band” crap. Please.
But @Wigwam didn’t say that at all. The Beatles wouldn’t have been the Beatles without each of the elements that made them famous. Take John, Paul, George, Ringo, Brian, or George M. out of the equation and you’ll end up with a different product.
Oh yes they did. If I may quote (Italics are mine):
but I feel he benefited from the ride with John and Paul more than they did with him and perhaps should have been more grateful to them than he could appear at times in Anthology or elsewhere.
Also, he was “forced” to change styles by how their direction changed? That’s bullshit. He wasn’t forced to do s**t.
And also – don’t accuse me of misrepresenting something someone said.
As if it matters how a man falls down.'
'When the fall's all that's left, it matters a great deal.
1.10am
27 March 2015
Offline Nobody is accusing you of anything.
Formerly Known As JPM-Fangirl -- 2016
'Out There' - 07-06-2015 - Ziggo Dome Amsterdam -- 'One On One' - 12-06-2016 - Pinkpop Festival Landgraaf
2.11am
18 December 2012
Offline Paul and John taught George about songwriting, but his guitar playing would’ve been more influenced by Clapton and Indian classical musicians.
3.07am
17 October 2013
Offline mr. Sun king coming together said
JPM-Fangirl said
mr. Sun king coming together said
To the actual question – we don’t know. But it doesn’t get done if he says no.To the point that George was a lucky person to know McCartney and Lennon – just stop. He was a Beatle. We will never see into the internal dynamics, and everything else. Whatever we see is absolutely nowhere close to the whole story, and their contributions are nowhere close to being seen by everyone. Please stop with this revisionist “Well, it was really Paul and John’s band” crap. Please.
But @Wigwam didn’t say that at all. The Beatles wouldn’t have been the Beatles without each of the elements that made them famous. Take John, Paul, George, Ringo, Brian, or George M. out of the equation and you’ll end up with a different product.
Oh yes they did. If I may quote (Italics are mine):
but I feel he benefited from the ride with John and Paul more than they did with him and perhaps should have been more grateful to them than he could appear at times in Anthology or elsewhere.
Also, he was “forced” to change styles by how their direction changed? That’s bullshit. He wasn’t forced to do s**t.
And also – don’t accuse me of misrepresenting something someone said.
I’m allowed an opinion thankee, ( and stand by it)!! JPM Fangirl has hers ………And so do you.
We differ…That’s OK. I don’t expect anyone to alter their opinion because of mine…… so calm down ‘Sunny’. We all love and are passionate about the same group.
Any anger issues you have…… direct them at me please.
Please also bear in mind.
‘Everything we hear is opinion, not fact. Everything we see a perspective, not the truth’ Marcus Aurelius.
I think George would have got along rather well with the old Roman general ……….Without wanting to be too ‘presumptive’….. What do you think?
4.52am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Reading thru ‘Tune In’ it comes across heavily that a) from early on George was one of the best lead guitarists in the Liverpool music scene so he would have gotten noticed somewhere and somehow (same as Ringo would have gotten noticed if he hadn’t of joined the Beatles, John said the same about Ringo) – not as big as in the Beatles but none of them would have been and b) the three of them needed each other to develop themselves and their musicianship. George taught John a hell of a lot and his enthusiasm for learning and records contributed to all three driving themselves forwards, seeking new sounds, records and chords. There is a reason why it was the three and why even when nothing was happening they didn’t just wander off never to reunite like what happened to most bands in the area.
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Wigwam, Beatlebug"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
10.21am
Reviewers
14 April 2010
Offline I can’t argue against George’s being “dragged along” by John & Paul to a certain extent. At the same time, I don’t think anyone could argue with the fact that George dragged John along in showing him that guitars actually had 6 strings and this is how you play it. All four helped drag each other along in some way if you really stop and do the research.
Would George have become famous without having met John and Paul? Arguments can be made on both sides. George was certainly a determined young man and was on the lookout for a band to either join or form on his own. That, however, may not have translated into success. While he may have been one of the better guitarists in Liverpool, you have to believe there were better ones. A lot of them are now mere footnotes in books about the Beatles (Johnny “Guitar” Byrne, anyone?). There were no gaurantees. Thank goodness they all met and the stars aligned to bring Brain and a host of others across their paths. The variables that make up their entire story are mind boggling.
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Shamrock Womlbs, Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<, Beatlebug, C.R.A., ewe2, KyleKartanTo the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.
10.58am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline George had options; it wasnt like he was stuck with John and Paul, that was it, and if he left he was left high and dry. He chose to stay with them because they all on got so well together even when they had no gigs. There is a George quote in ‘Tune In’ (special edition, page 518) where he says
“I loved my association with John and Paul because i recognised something in me which i recognised with them – which they must have or could have recognised in me, which is why we ended up together. And it was just great knowing there’s somebody else in life who feels similar to yourself.”
It was the friendship that kept them together, that meeting of minds.
I know it wasnt meant by @Wigwam but i get where @mr. Sun king coming together is coming from; at times it does come across like John and Paul were the two talented ones and would have made it together whether it was with George and Ringo or Bill and Ted or Bert or whoever – George was just damn fortunate to be in the area and meet them, was dragged thru the hard times, became something after basking in the scorching glow of Lennon/McCartney and should have been much more thankful towards them both throughout his life (why not have him falling them around kissing their feet and feeding them grapes).
Its no surprise he got so pissed off with it all, i get pissed off with it all.
The reality is that in the beginning is that George was dedicated in playing lead guitar and they were very very close friends, singing was not a big deal and songwriting he never thought about until much later (the song-writing credit on ‘In Spite Of All The Danger ‘ was because Paul thought that’s how it was done; play the solo, get a shared credit). He grew into all three at different speeds based on his own wants and how much room John and Paul gave him to do so.
It feels at times George gets less credit because he is judged for not being John or Paul when he never wanted to be. He spent his whole life trying to figure out who he was and why he was here.
Going back to the ‘Anthology’ and ‘Beatle George’ and everything that entailed wouldnt have been that easy for him and its no secret the leading force of him agreeing was financial concerns. He threw himself into it (he’s the best damn one of the three in my opinion) but he had moments when he didnt want to do it and its there on camera. It shouldnt be that big a surprise those moments can be seen.
I’m just thankful that he did do it.
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11.09am
18 December 2012
Offline meanmistermustard said
Reading thru ‘Tune In’ it comes across heavily that a) from early on George was one of the best lead guitarists in the Liverpool music scene so he would have gotten noticed somewhere and somehow (same as Ringo would have gotten noticed if he hadn’t of joined the Beatles, John said the same about Ringo) – not as big as in the Beatles but none of them would have been and b) the three of them needed each other to develop themselves and their musicianship. George taught John a hell of a lot and his enthusiasm for learning and records contributed to all three driving themselves forwards, seeking new sounds, records and chords. There is a reason why it was the three and why even when nothing was happening they didn’t just wander off never to reunite like what happened to most bands in the area.
Yep. George was the reason they went electric and kept the band going when they were stuck in a rut. Then there’s the fact he instigated getting Ringo in. The Beatles had a lot of luck in getting success as it was, so if Paul and John only had each other they’ve could’ve easily faded away like anyone else.
Also, it’s annoying how he’s always portrayed as being this puppy who followed Paul and John around everywhere when he actually was doing a lot on his own and playing with other groups when it suited him.
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Zig, meanmistermustard, Beatlebug, C.R.A.11.35am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline That’s the big thing i’ve picked up and learnt in ‘Tune In’, that there were times when it went quiet on the music side of things but they still met up and grew closer.
The story generally gets reported as
- John meet Paul.
- Paul joins.
- Paul invites George in.
- They get work.
- Pete joins.
- Off to Germany.
- Pete gets the boot.
- Success looms
- Pete out, Ringo in.
- Beatlemania conquers the universe.
when in truth there is far more to it. I honestly wasnt that aware how there there were large gaps in the early days when they hardly played a gig yet still met up.
At times it comes across like John tolerated George because he could play guitar well when in truth John really liked George as a person and enjoyed him being around as well as seeing how good George was.
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Zig, Beatlebug, KyleKartan"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
12.48pm
18 December 2012
Offline Yeah, the experiences of Tommy Moore, Stuart Sutcliffe, and Pete Best really show how vital it was that John, Paul, and George all clicked on a personal level, and then Ringo later on.
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Zig, Beatlebug, all things must pass7.24pm
17 October 2013
Offline If my aunty had you know what….. she’d be my uncle………..
It’s all intelligent supposition about what might have happened. What we have is what did happen……..as much as we can discover anyway….And many of you know an awful lot about that.
I see most of the thoughtful pieces on here as attempts to understand the star dust sprinkled on these four lads. The luck, the talent, the charisma, the timing it’s all such a complex weave it’s difficult to unravel…Even then, on which strands do we place most emphasis?
We’ll never know it all and we’d never agree on any of it, apart from that they all played very important roles and that subtracting any one of them would have diminished what we have.
But none of us wants to stop trying to understand what happened do we?
You can take a view as to whether after John and Paul gave up music to lay carpets ‘Georgie And The Harrisongs’ set Hamburg alight, lit up Liverpool, conquered America and paved the way for The Rolling Stones and Herman and the Hermits to follow in Georgie’s wake.
But the reality is that together that’s exactly what the Beatles did.
Consider how lucky those groups were and their debt clinging to the coat-tails of John, Paul, George and Ringo???
(I’ll have some raving Stones fan attack me now for making such an assumption……Or for even daring to juxtapose the Stones with Herman as though they were equal…………I don’t give a poink!!).
Finally I just want to say something to reassure @bewareofchairs
Over the course of thousands of years of evolution nature has provided us with a way of detecting chairs, especially in the dark…..It’s called a shin.
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Beatlebug, Mademoiselle Kitty >^..^<, ewe29.52pm
Moderators
15 February 2015
Offline
@Wigwam said
<snip>
Finally I just want to say something to reassure bewareofchairs
Over the course of thousands of years of evolution nature has provided us with a way of detecting chairs, especially in the dark…..It’s called a shin.
You hysterical Forumpudlians are going to be the death of me. First @AppleScruffJunior causes others to question my sanity when I won’t stop laughing for half an hour over her remarks on George’s teeth… now this. If I get another such excitement I’ll be gone troppo.
([{BRACKETS!}])
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