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8.45am
1 November 2012
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“I believe – not speaking for him, but my interpretation – that he means it that narrowing the definition of rock n roll to classic arena rock is racially limiting because that kind of rock is dominated by white people.”
Tough beans. If the majority of rockers are white, then so be it. The majority of rappers and soul artists are black. Bully for them. It reflects reality. Reality isn’t homogenous. Stop trying to make reality fit your agenda.
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1.59pm
8 November 2012
Offline Funny Paper said
Reality isn’t homogenous.
Highly ironic argument to make given that the point is to recognize achievements in rock while reflecting its true diversity.
Stop trying to make reality fit your agenda.
Better to constrict it to fit your own, then. Got it.
parlance
2.09pm
8 November 2012
Offline Into the Sky with Diamonds said
This is easy:JETHRO TULL !!!!!
Their first 4 albums were remarkable and they’ve had a huge following. What more could you ask for? (OK, after Aqualung they kinda got commercial and sold out to The Man and started selling lots of records, but their first 4 albums should be enough to qualify)
I went to high school with the world’s biggest Jethro Tull fan. He would be pumping his fist if he were reading this. 
Answer: The Hall of Fame has an anti-British bias.
I hadn’t thought of that. I gave up long time ago on the idea that Duran Duran would ever make it into the HoF as long as Jann Wenner is alive. But I always thought of that as more a bias against bands that were perceived to appeal to young girls than an anti-British bias, that’s an interesting theory.
parlance
5.56pm
10 August 2011
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I spoke to one of the Hall of Fame voters. He’s was Springsteen’s manager and a former critic – I’m blanking on his name. He told me Jethro Tull was a “minor band” ….
That got me thinking of who’s in and who’s out, and it seems to me that band for band there’s a pro-American (or anti-British) bias, depending on how you choose to look at it. (Yes, of course there are a number of British acts.)
Consider that the (American) Buffalo Springfield are in. Granted, they had Steve Stills and Neil Young who would go on to greater things, but the band was around just a few years and had ONE hit (“For What It’s Worth”.) Now I love everything about that song, but still, their output was measly, and I don’t think they were particularly influential.
The Eagles used the same chord progression a few years later on “Hotel California”:
Rightly or wrongly, their most famous song:
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9.01pm
3 September 2012
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The Rock Hall probably considers British bands to a lesser extent because it’s based in America, but to be fair, that’s no excuse. They’ve inducted several people who I’ve never heard of, and that many albums from hall artists are inferior to the masterful Odyssey and Oracle, thoroughly disturbs me. I was pretty disappointed not to see them for the recent inductions, because I’m very fervent that they finally induct them.
Quite influential, as well.
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9.38pm
Reviewers
14 April 2010
Offline Me.
Not necessarily as an inductee – I will settle for visitor.
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Von BonteeTo the fountain of perpetual mirth, let it roll for all its worth. And all the children boogie.
10.56pm
14 December 2009
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Intothesky, that’s Jon Landau you’re referring to up there. He’s been mentioned here before.
There’s not anti-English bias in the Hall – the founders are, I believe, mostly white American baby-boomers; and many of the bands who were most important to that demographic have been inducted. There is a sort of class-bias, though, it seems; there seems to be a prejudice against art-rockers. And since the English largely specialized in that sort of band, it would appear to support an imagined anti-English agenda. (And that’s why no Jethro Tull.) Most of the major original wave of British Invasion bands are in there. The Zombies were just fine, but kinda marginal in the grand scheme. No room for everybody!
FunnyPaper, Miles Davis’s 1970-75 albums are all at least as much “rock” as jazz.
Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.
7.40am
1 November 2012
Offline If there were a Jazz Hall of Fame, I would exclude 75% of my favorite musicians and bands from being honored by it — because they didn’t do jazz, for f**k sake.
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11.42pm
3 September 2012
Offline They’re probably the most important Invasion band that isn’t inducted, yet. I know Deep Purple, Chicago and others aren’t either but that’s a different era. They deserve to be in. As new albums keep becoming eligible for the hall, more bands will be inducted. It’ll be a long time before they run out of bands to induct; they probably won’t.
It surely makes more sense for them to be in than Public Enemy..
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1.24am
10 August 2011
Offline Von Bontee said, “that’s Jon Landau you’re referring to.”
Exactly.
I think of Yes as being an art-rock band, but not Jethro Tull – at least not the Jethro Tull that belongs in the Hall of Fame.
I don’t care for much of anything of theirs after Aqualung, so maybe that’s when they became art-rocky.
Deep Purple not in the Hall of Fame???? I mean really….
I think the Zombies are a little tougher to make a case for, though you could argue that they were no less good than the Buffalo Springfield.
"Into the Sky with Diamonds" (the Beatles and the Race to the Moon – a history)
3.09am
3 September 2012
Offline Bands like Yes and Moody Blues aren’t either if I recall correctly. I know Deep Purple’s been considered, though. The Zombies haven’t, so I don’t see why they randomly would 23 or 24 years later.. It’s unlikely that we’ll see the Zombies enter the hall.
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3.41am
14 December 2009
Offline Funny Paper said
If there were a Jazz Hall of Fame, I would exclude 75% of my favorite musicians and bands from being honored by it — because they didn’t do jazz, for f**k sake.
See, now, if you’re gonna limit the definition of “rock and roll” and what’s to be ultimately eligible for a hall of fame honouring it, why not go all the way and limit it only to the dozen-or-so originators of the form? Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard and a few others. Nobody who recorded after Buddy Holly’s plane crash is eligible. A Jazz Hall of Fame that had such strict exclusionary limitations would have no place for Miles Davis either – it’d feature nothing but Dixieland!
Like it or not, rock evolved and split off into multiple other forms, including soul, heavy metal, R&B, folk-rock, rap, etc. As such, Jazz-fusion is a legitimate musical sub-genre, and there is arguably no representative figure more worthy of induction than Miles, not just for his own music but for the many eventual jazz-rocking bandleaders who came up through his bands.
[Incidentally, thank you for introducing me to Crow, who I have legit never ever heard of until yesterday! And now I find that they even had a Top 20 single which I’ve likewise never heard; and that Black Sabbath even covered the song on the UK version of their debut! Can’t believe I haven’t encountered all this info until just now. Crazy…]
Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.
3.45am
14 December 2009
Offline Into the Sky with Diamonds said
Von Bontee said, “that’s Jon Landau you’re referring to.”
Exactly.
I think of Yes as being an art-rock band, but not Jethro Tull – at least not the Jethro Tull that belongs in the Hall of Fame.
I don’t care for much of anything of theirs after Aqualung, so maybe that’s when they became art-rocky.
.
.
That’s precisely when they became arty! Recorded two albums consisting of a SINGLE SONG each, started including librettos with their liner notes, stuff like that. (I prefer their earlier albums myself, too.)
Paul: Yeah well… first of all, we’re bringing out a ‘Stamp Out Detroit’ campaign.
5.30am
8 November 2012
Offline Von Bontee said
See, now, if you’re gonna limit the definition of “rock and roll” and what’s to be ultimately eligible for a hall of fame honouring it, why not go all the way and limit it only to the dozen-or-so originators of the form? Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard and a few others. Nobody who recorded after Buddy Holly’s plane crash is eligible. A Jazz Hall of Fame that had such strict exclusionary limitations would have no place for Miles Davis either – it’d feature nothing but Dixieland!
Like it or not, rock evolved and split off into multiple other forms, including soul, heavy metal, R&B, folk-rock, rap, etc. As such, Jazz-fusion is a legitimate musical sub-genre, and there is arguably no representative figure more worthy of induction than Miles, not just for his own music but for the many eventual jazz-rocking bandleaders who came up through his bands.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
parlance
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vonbontee6.51am
Reviewers
17 December 2012
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Von Bontee said
See, now, if you’re gonna limit the definition of “rock and roll” and what’s to be ultimately eligible for a hall of fame honouring it, why not go all the way and limit it only to the dozen-or-so originators of the form? Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard and a few others. Nobody who recorded after Buddy Holly’s plane crash is eligible. A Jazz Hall of Fame that had such strict exclusionary limitations would have no place for Miles Davis either – it’d feature nothing but Dixieland!
Like it or not, rock evolved and split off into multiple other forms, including soul, heavy metal, R&B, folk-rock, rap, etc. As such, Jazz-fusion is a legitimate musical sub-genre, and there is arguably no representative figure more worthy of induction than Miles, not just for his own music but for the many eventual jazz-rocking bandleaders who came up through his bands.
All hail the mighty Von Bontee! Couldn’t agree more. What the hell are “rock” groups and artists doing in a “rock and roll” hall of fame? I’d exclude 90% of the list on that basis, Funny Paper. Setting up the hall of fame, seems to me they used “rock and roll” as a generic term applying to the music aimed at the market that came into being with the birth of rock and roll, or as that period is often referred to, the birth of the teenager. Maybe they could have found a truer name for it, though I don’t know what that would be since “popular music” is too wide. But the Hall has never limited itself to “rock and roll”, otherwise someone like – for instance – Janis Joplin would not be there. A blues singer who worked against the backdrop of what would become known as “rock”, how does she belong in a “rock and roll” hall of fame? Rap can be said to be a development of the “talking blues” of Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan (both in the hall), combined with forms like reggae toasting, often used on Bob Marley (also in the hall) records. If someone is going to argue that the list should be frozen to the form in its title, then don’t argue for anything that isn’t strictly “rock and roll” – and that includes “rock”.
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11.28am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Ive got absolutely no idea who is or isnt in the RaRHoF as i dont pay any attention to it. I presume all the major artists and acts are in along with significant others in all types of relevant genres and generations.
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6.53pm
1 November 2012
Offline Von Bontee said
Funny Paper said
If there were a Jazz Hall of Fame, I would exclude 75% of my favorite musicians and bands from being honored by it — because they didn’t do jazz, for f**k sake.
See, now, if you’re gonna limit the definition of “rock and roll” and what’s to be ultimately eligible for a hall of fame honouring it, why not go all the way and limit it only to the dozen-or-so originators of the form? Elvis, Chuck Berry, Little Richard and a few others. Nobody who recorded after Buddy Holly’s plane crash is eligible. A Jazz Hall of Fame that had such strict exclusionary limitations would have no place for Miles Davis either – it’d feature nothing but Dixieland!
Like it or not, rock evolved and split off into multiple other forms, including soul, heavy metal, R&B, folk-rock, rap, etc. As such, Jazz-fusion is a legitimate musical sub-genre, and there is arguably no representative figure more worthy of induction than Miles, not just for his own music but for the many eventual jazz-rocking bandleaders who came up through his bands.
[Incidentally, thank you for introducing me to Crow, who I have legit never ever heard of until yesterday! And now I find that they even had a Top 20 single which I’ve likewise never heard; and that Black Sabbath even covered the song on the UK version of their debut! Can’t believe I haven’t encountered all this info until just now. Crazy…]
I never said I would over-limit the rock or the jazz category. Why would anybody err on the opposite side? It’s not as if we are condemned to only think two extremes:
1) a category has to include practically everything
2) a category has to be so exclusive, it even excludes many things inside it!
There is a third option, where jazz would have a whole wealth of musicians and bands to include, but simply don’t accept non-jazz people, like the Rolling Stones or Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, or hip hop or rap, etc. There would be borderline cases that should be discussed and agreed upon by the committee that makes up the “hall of fame”. For jazz, for example, the Chicago or the pop artist Michael Franks could at least be within the realm of discussion. And most of the “jazz fusion” cases you allude to would be included without any discussion needed.
One of my favorite bands is War (mostly later albums without Eric Burdon). I would not include them in a Jazz Hall of Fame because they just never really did jazz, not even a fusion (though they did title an album “Platinum Jazz” — there was no jazz on it!). I would, however, feel they would be cheated if they were not included in a Latin Music Hall of Fame, because they did so much to incorporate the Los Angeles chicano Latino sound in many of their songs.
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6.20pm
Members
18 March 2013
Offline I just found out today that Jeff Lynne/ELO are NOT in the RaRHoF :O whaaatt!!
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9.16pm
21 November 2012
Offline Half of the bands/artists I expect to be in the HoF probably aren’t. WTF.
8.06pm
1 January 2017
Offline I’m a bit disappointed how The Shadows haven’t been inducted yet. They were pretty much one of the first big British rock bands in the late 50s/early 60s, plus Hank Marvin’s guitar playing was a huge influence on the likes of our George, Eric Clapton and even David Gilmour, upon further reading.
Personally, I think the inductees are selected mostly on the fact in which if they had a huge American following, something which The Shadows lacked IMO.
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