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5.08pm
26 January 2017
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Dark Overlord said
Exactly, doing this is giving the government unnecessary power. It’s like when they decided to ban plastic straws, although not as ridiculous.
Why is banning plastic straws ridiculous? There are literally giant island of plastic floating around in the ocean choking up sea life as we speak.
I don’t think this is giving the government too much power. I never understand this attitude, prevalent in the US, that the government are always in the wrong and are always the enemy. They are democratically elected (well, as democratic as it can be in the current electoral system), making them a far better judge on how to run things than private companies or a 200+ year old document written by slave owners.
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5.10pm
15 November 2018
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QuarryMan said
Why is banning plastic straws ridiculous? There are literally giant island of plastic floating around in the ocean choking up sea life as we speak.
I don’t think this is giving the government too much power. I never understand this attitude, prevalent in the US, that the government are always in the wrong and are always the enemy. They are democratically elected (well, as democratic as it can be in the current electoral system), making them a far better judge on how to run things than private companies or a 200+ year old document written by slave owners.
The government screws stuff up sometimes, it’s true, but they’ve also given women the right to vote, abolished slavery, and done many other excellent things, and all people ever do is bitch at them. They don’t get enough credit for what they do. Then again, the current leader of the government of the US thinks that climate change is a hoax… 
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5.13pm
26 January 2017
Offline 50yearslate said
QuarryMan said
Why is banning plastic straws ridiculous? There are literally giant island of plastic floating around in the ocean choking up sea life as we speak.
I don’t think this is giving the government too much power. I never understand this attitude, prevalent in the US, that the government are always in the wrong and are always the enemy. They are democratically elected (well, as democratic as it can be in the current electoral system), making them a far better judge on how to run things than private companies or a 200+ year old document written by slave owners.
The government screws stuff up sometimes, it’s true, but they’ve also given women the right to vote, abolished slavery, and done many other excellent things, and all people ever do is bitch at them. They don’t get enough credit for what they do. Then again, the current leader of the government of the US thinks that climate change is a hoax…
Agreed. Worth remembering that the American people don’t support him though – 3 million more people voted for Clinton. Personally, I despise both of them, one of whom for being a bigot who is trying to reverse decades of progress and the other for only having one virtue: not being a bigot who is trying to reverse decades of progress.
I've been up on the mountain, and I've seen his wondrous grace,
I've sat there on the barstool and I've looked him in the face.
He seemed a little haggard, but it did not slow him down,
he was humming to the neon of the universal sound.
5.16pm
15 November 2018
Offline QuarryMan said
Agreed. Worth remembering that the American people don’t support him though – 3 million more people voted for Clinton. Personally, I despise both of them, one of whom for being a bigot who is trying to reverse decades of progress and the other for only having one virtue: not being a bigot who is trying to reverse decades of progress.
I don’t think either of them are fit to be president, but Clinton would have been a far better choice than Trump. Also, it’s about time the US had a female president.
This comic sums it up pretty nicely:
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18 March 2013
Offline ^Clinton as a president (excluding his slimeball personality) was pretty good. The last president to have a balanced budget (although you can say it did help lead to the Global Recession a decade after his presidency :/ ), stopped ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, put women in key roles in his government, and my own personal bias, he greatly helped with the Good Friday Agreement which ended The Troubles in Northern Ireland.
Yes he did have a lot of failures like Rwanda but he was far better than what came after him that’s for sure.
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5.33pm
9 March 2017
Offline 50yearslate said
Dark Overlord said
Exactly, doing this is giving the government unnecessary power. It’s like when they decided to ban plastic straws, although not as ridiculous.
How on earth is this giving the government power? Murder is banned by the government as well. Does that give them unnecessary power?
You tell me. There’s a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between murder and using a plastic straw.
AppleScruffJunior said
Ah yes those ‘ridiculous’ plastic straws.
[Shows YouTube video and photo]
Plastic is atrocious, takes hundreds of year to decompose, and is very easily swallowed by wildlife. Any attempt that is made at switching to cardboard, metal, and glass replacements is for the better of the environment.
We’re ridiculously over-reliant on plastic and there is no need to be.
If we dispose of plastic properly, which would be recycling, then these problems wouldn’t happen. These problems only happen because a bunch of lazy jerks decided to liter.
QuarryMan said
Why is banning plastic straws ridiculous? There are literally giant island of plastic floating around in the ocean choking up sea life as we speak.I don’t think this is giving the government too much power. I never understand this attitude, prevalent in the US, that the government are always in the wrong and are always the enemy. They are democratically elected (well, as democratic as it can be in the current electoral system), making them a far better judge on how to run things than private companies or a 200+ year old document written by slave owners.
It’s authoritarian and plastic straws only become a threat when disposed of improperly.
Our government is only democratic in a technical sense but in reality it’s a big game of pick the lesser of two evils.
Almost everyone was a slave owner when the bill of rights was written so i wouldn’t put it against them.
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5.45pm
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18 March 2013
Offline ^ People and corporations are lazy and don’t want to recycle. Recycling has been in the “mainstream” in the US since the 1970s, so people have had 40 years to actually separate their rubbish and dispose of it properly- yet they still don’t. Humans as a whole are (in my opinion) selfish, we don’t care about what’s going to happen in 5, 20, 50 years. It’s what here and now that’s important. So, if it’s easier to just throw something in the general waste bin (or even better, throw it on the ground), a lot of people will choose that over taking it home and properly disposing of it.
Recycling isn’t the most important thing we should be doing anyways, we need to REDUCE, REUSE, and then as a last result recycle. Plastics such as water bottles and straws are single-use, we use them, throw them away and get a new one. Such a waste of materials, and resources (not including the time it takes to properly dispose of them, they create a carbon footprint even when you recycle them).
We can reduce our use of single-use straws by just getting rid of them entirely, you and I (assuming you are able-bodied DO) don’t need plastic straws. We’re more than capable of tilting a reusable cup or bottle in our mouths. Why use a single plastic straw for half an hour, then throw it away, when that costs a lot of resources to build, and will contribute to the mass amount of waste we produce every day?
If you’re in such dire needs of straws DO, you can get metal ones online that are very easy to clean and cost about $10. You’re saving the planet a lot of waste. If you don’t want to carry a metal straw with you, many places now offer biodegradable cardboard straws which do the job just as well as plastic straws and you can get some nice mulch for your plants out of it after a few days, everyone wins.
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5.50pm
15 November 2018
Offline Dark Overlord said
There’s a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between murder and using a plastic straw.
Of course there is. That’s not my point. My point was that banning things that need to be banned does not count as abuse of power. It’s the reason governments exist.
AppleScruffJunior said
Ah yes those ‘ridiculous’ plastic straws.
[Shows YouTube video and photo]
Plastic is atrocious, takes hundreds of year to decompose, and is very easily swallowed by wildlife. Any attempt that is made at switching to cardboard, metal, and glass replacements is for the better of the environment.
We’re ridiculously over-reliant on plastic and there is no need to be.If we dispose of plastic properly, which would be recycling, then these problems wouldn’t happen. These problems only happen because a bunch of lazy jerks decided to liter.
That’s more or less true… but you’re right, a bunch of lazy jerks litter and cause problems. We can’t stop them from doing that, but we can ban the harmful objects that they litter… or we could just ban littering. Unless that gives the government unnecessary power?
QuarryMan said
Why is banning plastic straws ridiculous? There are literally giant island of plastic floating around in the ocean choking up sea life as we speak.I don’t think this is giving the government too much power. I never understand this attitude, prevalent in the US, that the government are always in the wrong and are always the enemy. They are democratically elected (well, as democratic as it can be in the current electoral system), making them a far better judge on how to run things than private companies or a 200+ year old document written by slave owners.
It’s authoritarian and plastic straws only become a threat when disposed of improperly.
Our government is only democratic in a technical sense but in reality it’s a big game of pick the lesser of two evils.
That’s fair. “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.” – (I think) Winston Churchill. But that doesn’t mean all government is innately evil. They are capable of doing good things too.
Almost everyone was a slave owner when the bill of rights was written so i wouldn’t put it against them.
But you’ll hold it against them when they ban plastic straws?
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9 March 2017
Offline @AppleScruffJunior I don’t use straws, i’m thinking of this from the perspective of freedom.
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6.12pm
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18 March 2013
Offline @Dark Overlord said
ASJ I don’t use straws, i’m thinking of this from the perspective of freedom.
Not to insult you DO but that is such an American response “but my freedom!!!”.
Give me 3 positives of plastic straws, and why we should continue to produce billions of them a year, even though millions of them now pollute our oceans, and are consumed by wildlife?
Surely, we should be able to use leaded petrol then because it was such a part of our freedom for decades, despite the fact it caused almost irreparable damage to the environment and to people’s health (like plastic straws are doing).
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6.36pm
15 November 2018
Offline AppleScruffJunior said
@Dark Overlord said
ASJ I don’t use straws, i’m thinking of this from the perspective of freedom.Not to insult you DO but that is such an American response “but my freedom!!!”.
Give me 3 positives of plastic straws, and why we should continue to produce billions of them a year, even though millions of them now pollute our oceans, and are consumed by wildlife?
Surely, we should be able to use leaded petrol then because it was such a part of our freedom for decades, despite the fact it caused almost irreparable damage to the environment and to people’s health (like plastic straws are doing).
Too much freedom isn’t always a good thing. People abuse it. I’m American, and I think the “but my freedom” excuse is total crap. But my environment!
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7.02pm
9 March 2017
Offline AppleScruffJunior said
Not to insult you DO but that is such an American response “but my freedom!!!”.
I’ll give you that one.
Give me 3 positives of plastic straws, and why we should continue to produce billions of them a year, even though millions of them now pollute our oceans, and are consumed by wildlife?
I don’t think we should produce billions of them a year. You’re right that they’re harmful to the environment and pollute our oceans, i just think that people should have the right to make and use them. It’s like how i feel about drug use, drugs are bad (even marijuana) but we should have the right to use them. Same goes here.
50yearslate said
Too much freedom isn’t always a good thing. People abuse it. I’m American, and I think the “but my freedom” excuse is total crap. But my environment!
Yes, too much freedom can be a bad thing but i don’t see having the right to use a plastic straw as too much freedom.
On the other hand going to jail for 6 months for handing out plastic straws is a lack of freedom.
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7.05pm
18 December 2017
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Dark Overlord said
AppleScruffJunior said
Not to insult you DO but that is such an American response “but my freedom!!!”.I’ll give you that one.
Give me 3 positives of plastic straws, and why we should continue to produce billions of them a year, even though millions of them now pollute our oceans, and are consumed by wildlife?
I don’t think we should produce billions of them a year. You’re right that they’re harmful to the environment and pollute our oceans, i just think that people should have the right to make and use them. It’s like how i feel about drug use, drugs are bad (even marijuana) but we should have the right to use them. Same goes here.
50yearslate said
Too much freedom isn’t always a good thing. People abuse it. I’m American, and I think the “but my freedom” excuse is total crap. But my environment!Yes, too much freedom can be a bad thing but i don’t see having the right to use a plastic straw as too much freedom.
On the other hand going to jail for 6 months for handing out plastic straws is a lack of freedom.
JAIL?!? Didn’t know that part… that’s a bit 1984-ish, i have to say… i bet they can have straws in communist countries.
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7.05pm
15 November 2018
Offline Dark Overlord said
Give me 3 positives of plastic straws, and why we should continue to produce billions of them a year, even though millions of them now pollute our oceans, and are consumed by wildlife?
I don’t think we should produce billions of them a year. You’re right that they’re harmful to the environment and pollute our oceans, i just think that people should have the right to make and use them. It’s like how i feel about drug use, drugs are bad (even marijuana) but we should have the right to use them. Same goes here.
But this is different. Drugs harm the person who’s taking them. The Great Pacific Garbage Patch affects everyone.
50yearslate said
Too much freedom isn’t always a good thing. People abuse it. I’m American, and I think the “but my freedom” excuse is total crap. But my environment!Yes, too much freedom can be a bad thing but i don’t see having the right to use a plastic straw as too much freedom.
On the other hand going to jail for 6 months for handing out plastic straws is a lack of freedom.
… this is a thing that happens?
I mean my local grocery store still sells plastic straws. You can get them in restaurants. It’s not like they’re contraband. (though they should be…)
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Offline That is incorrect, @Dark Overlord. Exaggerating in a debate like this can make you fall flat on your face.
A simple google search has thrown up the same statistic on all pages: a fine of up to $300 for a restaurant that breaches the law. Get the facts right then argue a point against the environment, not the other way round.
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7.22pm
9 March 2017
Offline I got the 6 months in jail from this source.
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15 November 2018
Offline Forbes.com?
Edit: That says “possible” penalties. And they’re not going to charge you that much for waving a plastic straw around in the street. I live in California, and there are plenty of restaurants that use plastic straws, and stores that sell them.
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7.54pm
18 December 2017
Offline Not to interrupt a serious conversation, but the picture of someone waving a straw and immediately getting tackled by a SWAT team is pretty funny to me.
What I don’t fully understand is why straws? Soda holder thingies (can’t think of name, sorry) are way more dangerous to animals, and way less essential to humans. Not like straws are essential, they’re just fun.
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17 December 2012
Offline An important point that is being missed here is that the debate over plastic and reducing its use is about products that are single-use.
I haven’t heard of anywhere in the world that is proposing a total ban on the use of plastic to make straws, the bans and restrictions are coming in on plastic straws that are intended to be used only once and then thrown away.
You can compare it to moves against single-use plastic carrier bags (which Ireland led the way on). And, obviously, I’m talking the UK experience here.
Shops used to hand out billions of them here for free every year. In 2015, the law was changed to make larger stores charge for single-use bags. Many of the stores abandoned the cheap plastic bags for slightly more expensive but more durable bags that last longer, others have followed suit, and it is now proposed to extend it to all stores next year.
It makes a difference. I used to walk out of supermarkets laden with throw-away bags, and now I always make sure I have a couple of bags in my pocket when going to the supermarket. My small local “corner-shop” still gives away free bags though and, as a result, I often forget to grab a bag as I rush to make the shop before it closes. I bought two three-litre bottles of drink in there yesterday, had forgot to grab a bag, and they gave me a bag for each.
In six months or so I’ll be charged for those bags, and you can be sure I’ll start remembering to take a bag with me more often than I do.
Though not totally equivalent, it’s easy enough to get reusable straws – including those made of plastic – that to keep giving away single-use plastic straws (estimated UK use of 8.5 billion annually in the fast food industry alone), which are proven to be damaging the environment, is madness.
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5.12am
26 January 2017
Offline Dark Overlord said
There’s a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference between murder and using a plastic straw.
AppleScruffJunior said
Ah yes those ‘ridiculous’ plastic straws.
[Shows YouTube video and photo]
Plastic is atrocious, takes hundreds of year to decompose, and is very easily swallowed by wildlife. Any attempt that is made at switching to cardboard, metal, and glass replacements is for the better of the environment.
We’re ridiculously over-reliant on plastic and there is no need to be.If we dispose of plastic properly, which would be recycling, then these problems wouldn’t happen. These problems only happen because a bunch of lazy jerks decided to liter.
QuarryMan said
Why is banning plastic straws ridiculous? There are literally giant island of plastic floating around in the ocean choking up sea life as we speak.I don’t think this is giving the government too much power. I never understand this attitude, prevalent in the US, that the government are always in the wrong and are always the enemy. They are democratically elected (well, as democratic as it can be in the current electoral system), making them a far better judge on how to run things than private companies or a 200+ year old document written by slave owners.
It’s authoritarian and plastic straws only become a threat when disposed of improperly.
Our government is only democratic in a technical sense but in reality it’s a big game of pick the lesser of two evils.
Almost everyone was a slave owner when the bill of rights was written so i wouldn’t put it against them.
I’m sorry to break it to you, but there is literally no way we can stop plastic straws being disposed of improperly. If they’re in common use, they will be littered everywhere, left to blow away and probably end up in the sea, and even if they do get put in the trash, it’s very difficult to separate out trash for proper recycling so most of the time they just end up with all the other rubbish.
So unless you can come up with a plan to completely stop people from littering, and can fix all the problems with current recycling systems, then why not just take the far simpler way and ban them, especially since there are no positives to plastic straws anyway.
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I've sat there on the barstool and I've looked him in the face.
He seemed a little haggard, but it did not slow him down,
he was humming to the neon of the universal sound.
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