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18 March 2013
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@Beatlebug said
You know as well as I that Trump is a far more divisive figure than the prime minister no one outside of Ireland has heard much of.
Speak for yourself, SG. Might just be your ignorance on European politics. Both Varadkar, Macron and Merkel (I assume you know the last two) have been a strong force in Brexit negotiations, if you’re tuned into news outside of the US, you’d know about him.
Outside of Brexit, Varadkar has been in the news for being the Taoiseach during our times of legalising same-sex marriage and abortion (he himself is gay and has an Indian father, he’s only the 4th openly gay head of government), being the head of government during the aftermath of the massive Apple corporate tax scandal which was in the news for quite a few days, meeting your President every year where they talk about nice backhanders, I imagine etc.
Sure, here he is with yer fella just under 2 weeks ago. Also trust Trump (that isn’t a slight on you BB btw, you’re not the head of a government), to call our Taoiseach, ‘Prime Minister’, he’s not the PM, that title doesn’t exist here. I did a quick look back at videos of Bertie Ahern meeting Dubya and Clinton, Enda Kenny with Obama and a former Tánaiste Brian Lenihan meeting H.W. Bush- all of whom were addressed by their correct titles by the POTUS (even though some of the pronunciations were a bit dodgy, they tried). Trump couldn’t be bothered to say the word ‘tea shuck’ and instead just called him ‘Prime Minister’.
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@AppleScruffJunior said
Speak for yourself, SG. Might just be your ignorance on European politics. Both Varadkar, Macron and Merkel (I assume you know the last two) have been a strong force in Brexit negotiations, if you’re tuned into news outside of the US, you’d know about him.
Outside of Brexit, Varadkar has been in the news for being the Taoiseach during our times of legalising same-sex marriage and abortion (he himself is gay and has an Indian father, he’s only the 4th openly gay head of government), being the head of government during the aftermath of the massive Apple corporate tax scandal which was in the news for quite a few days, meeting your President every year where they talk about nice backhanders, I imagine etc.
I do follow European and world politics, actually, and have been following Brexit with interest for the past year or so. And, like with all things, I’ve learned only just enough to realize how much I don’t know – I generally tend not to comment too much on foreign politics for this reason.
Those other things happened long before I started paying attention to news and politics, and as I’m sure you know, the news cycle churns forward so fast it’s difficult to understand what’s happening today before it becomes tomorrow, let alone what happened yesterday.
As for the last item, our President meets a hell of a lot of people, I’ll freely admit I’m not aware of every single one of them. 
Sure, here he is with yer fella just under 2 weeks ago.
Is that a plural “yer” as in Americans in general? 
Also trust Trump (that isn’t a slight on you BB btw, you’re not the head of a government), to call our Taoiseach, ‘Prime Minister’, he’s not the PM, that title doesn’t exist here.
I did a quick informal survey and The New York Times, Reuters*, the White House Press Secretary**, and that ABC News video you linked to all seem to think that “Prime Minister” is an acceptable equivalent to “Taoiseach”. Not to mention Wikipedia.
The title “Prime Minister” may not technically exist in Ireland, but in common parlance it is clearly essentially the same thing.
If we could still do polls, I’d like to do a poll of how many Forumpudlians know about Taoiseach Leo Varadkhar. I’d wager most outside of the British Isles would either not have heard of him, or only be slightly familiar with him and have few strong feelings – unlike President Trump, whom everyone here has heard of and most seem to hate. 
I should hope my point was obvious, about his status as a controversial public figure (or not) rather than saying LITERALLY NO ONE KNOWS WHO THIS GUY IS.
*Admittedly they seem a bit confused and refer to him as “Ireland’s Prime Minister Taoiseach Leo Varadkhar” in the photo description but just “Prime Minister” everywhere else 
**In the headline, at least; the statement itself uses “Taoiseach”, so I guess they’re thought of as synonymous.
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Offline So I opened a Rateyourmusic account earlier (Joe locked the original thread about it so I’m posting here) – anyone on there wanna be friends and guide me around? 
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18 March 2013
Offline Sure, here he is with yer fella just under 2 weeks ago.
Is that a plural “yer” as in Americans in general?
Yer man/fella and yer wan (male and female) can be both you (singular) and you (plural). I’m taking it as you are an American, therefore he’s ‘yer man’ because he’s the US’ man for the time being.
Yer man/yer wan can also be used if you can’t remember the name of someone- you know yer man who was the manager of the Beatles.
Beatlebug said
As for the last item, our President meets a hell of a lot of people, I’ll freely admit I’m not aware of every single one of them.
Ireland is the only nation that is guaranteed a personal meeting every single year with the POTUS, that being St. Patrick’s Day. It was interrupted a bit this year but Varadkar still went and greeted Trump (his 3rd time meeting him in the White House). So, if you’re watching the news in some capacity, you’ll see our fella (hasn’t been a female Taoiseach yet) in the White House on the 17th of March.
Also trust Trump (that isn’t a slight on you BB btw, you’re not the head of a government), to call our Taoiseach, ‘Prime Minister’, he’s not the PM, that title doesn’t exist here.
I did a quick informal survey and The New York Times, Reuters*, the White House Press Secretary**, and that ABC News video you linked to all seem to think that “Prime Minister” is an acceptable equivalent to “Taoiseach”. Not to mention Wikipedia.
The title “Prime Minister” may not technically exist in Ireland, but in common parlance it is clearly essentially the same thing.
**In the headline, at least; the statement itself uses “Taoiseach”, so I guess they’re thought of as synonymous.
As regards, the media calling him Prime Minister, I don’t expect anyone outside of Ireland to know what ‘Taoiseach’ means. Therefore, I have no problem with him being called Prime Minister in headlines, oftentimes (such as in the articles you quoted) they also call him Taoiseach which is nice because he isn’t the PM.
However, a government leader meeting face to face and not actually addressing him by his proper title is a bit rude, calling him Taoiseach shows respect for the country and for the language. ‘Prime Minister’ has connotations with Westminster and Ireland historically hasn’t had good relations with the British government so it’s a bit impolite to start calling the leader of the Irish government ‘Prime Minister’, he’s not. Every other President bar Trump has managed to address the Taoiseach by his title since these official meetings started in the Clinton era and I don’t know why Trump couldn’t do it either, granted he does struggle with the English language so an Irish word might make his brain fry.
I mean Trump is pretty much the US’ Prime Minister, right? He is the leader of your government, hence we should all now be able to call him Prime Minister Donald Trump because the titles are synonymous.
The Wiki article is also saying the equivalent role is as a ‘prime minister’ not that his title (which is what An Taoiseach is) can be substituted with ‘Prime Minister’, while he does the duties of a prime minister, he is not the Prime Minister, in the same way that Trump is not the Prime Minister. If you looked down a bit more at the Wiki article it also says
Taoiseach is the official title of the head of government in both English and Irish
Nowhere in our constitution does it say ‘Prime Minister’. Trump (and Reagan for that matter because I’m sure it’ll be brought up as he also called Taoiseach Charles Haughey ‘Prime Minister’) should therefore be saying Taoiseach. As a simple act of courtesy and respect from one governmental leader to another, the correct and official title should be used.
If we could still do polls, I’d like to do a poll of how many Forumpudlians know about Taoiseach Leo Varadkar. I’d wager most outside of the British Isles would either not have heard of him, or only be slightly familiar with him and have few strong feelings – unlike President Trump, whom everyone here has heard of and most seem to hate.
On an off note, I’d be cautious around using that term around Irish people. While I have no overly strong feelings about it, a lot of people get pissed off with it because it insinuates that Ireland is still a part of the UK, which I know you know it isn’t but it does not go down well if a well-meaning person says it to a bunch of Irish people. A better substitution if you’re talking politically is the UK and Ireland or if you’re talking geographically like you are, GB and Ireland (sorry about the Channel Islands you’re there in spirit <3 ).
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3.57pm
Moderators
15 February 2015
Offline AppleScruffJunior said
On an off note, I’d be cautious around using that term around Irish people. While I have no overly strong feelings about it, a lot of people get pissed off with it because it insinuates that Ireland is still a part of the UK, which I know you know it isn’t but it does not go down well if a well-meaning person says it to a bunch of Irish people. A better substitution if you’re talking politically is the UK and Ireland or if you’re talking geographically like you are, GB and Ireland (sorry about the Channel Islands you’re there in spirit <3 ).
I specifically used that term to avoid such implications, so considering I’m doing my best to accurately reflect the geographic reality of the situation and it’s not politically correct, I have to admit that don’t give a damn
I must confess, on the 17th of March I’m usually busy listening to Irish music/”Green is the Colour” and being remiss in keeping up with the news.
Anyway, I see your point about the etiquette of referring to a country’s leader by his title as one leader to another, but I really don’t think it’s the end of the world, I was just in a mood to have a pointless argument today. 
I still think prime minister is closer to Taoiseach than president – president is actually a different role, elected in a different manner, and y’all even have a president! 
I’d say Trump’s command of the English language is more than adequate, actually he’s quite a charismatic speaker, after a fashion (a very rough, fast-talking New York Yankee fashion, which I should hate as a Southerner, but I don’t, because I’m not nearly polite enough and far too blunt to be an average Southerner 
)
*crawls into bunker to avoid onslaught of hate for thinking that Donald Trump, lifelong professional entertainer/celebrity, is a decent public speaker*
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4.42pm
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18 March 2013
Offline Beatlebug said
AppleScruffJunior said
On an off note, I’d be cautious around using that term around Irish people. While I have no overly strong feelings about it, a lot of people get pissed off with it because it insinuates that Ireland is still a part of the UK, which I know you know it isn’t but it does not go down well if a well-meaning person says it to a bunch of Irish people. A better substitution if you’re talking politically is the UK and Ireland or if you’re talking geographically like you are, GB and Ireland (sorry about the Channel Islands you’re there in spirit <3 ).
I specifically used that term to avoid such implications, so considering I’m doing my best to accurately reflect the geographic reality of the situation and it’s not politically correct, I have to admit that don’t give a damn
Oh go on then, go into a pub in Limerick and say “wow it’s lovely being in the British Isles”. Fortunately ambulances are free here!
To say “you don’t give a damn”, is a bit odd seeing as I explained to you in a slight way the tumultuous historical relationship between Britain and Ireland.
Let’s see we have: genocide, forced starvation, stealing of land, destruction of our native language, the penal laws, murdering of innocent Northern Irish citizens by British soldiers that the current British government wants to ignore, blaming us for wanting to protect our country from war AGAIN so not rolling over for the government’s Brexit plans and on and on it goes and it’s STILL going on.
But yeah sure, feel free to continue labeling us with a term that a lot of Irish people hate just because you don’t give a damn and “don’t want to be politically correct”.
It’s very charming.
As a note but I hope everybody knows this, I have no problem with anyone who lives anywhere. I’m merely talking about the history that’s between the two nations and I have no actual dislike of an ordinary citizen who played no role in any of this. In saying that, f**k Priti Patel, prick.
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15 February 2015
Offline Oh s**t now I’ve done it… somehow… why does this always happen to me*? 
ASJ, you totally misunderstood what I meant by that. I will freely admit that I spoke a bit hastily and I can see why you misunderstood, but allow me to explain myself. I was referring specifically to the one instance where I used the term speaking geographically in an effort to avoid lumping England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, and Ireland into one “THE UNITED KINGDOM THINGY” because I KNOW THAT’S NOT CORRECT. I never meant to imply that I was going to go around using that phrase to refer to the political and cultural entities that inhabit that geographic area, that makes no sense. I also never meant to imply that I don’t give a damn about the long and tumultuous history between the two (different) (entirely distinct) (separate) countries, because obviously I do.
Honestly, as an outsider looking in, the whole historical foofaraw between a bunch of different Celts and Anglo-Saxon-Celts looks about as odd as the racial divide in the US must look to Europeans. But I won’t disrespect it, and never meant to. I just didn’t think that my one-time use of a phrase, which I went out of my way to choose with very specific intentions, was enough to constitute me s******g on the entire history of the English vs the Irish, and expressed that in a way that was perhaps stronger than intended.
I’m not in the best mood today, so maybe I should have just stayed off the Internet altogether
*I know why this always happens to me, I’ve been opening my big mouth, saying stupid s**t, and getting in trouble for it as long as I’ve been capable of speech. Perhaps this is why I feel a sort of kinship with Donald Trump
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26 January 2017
Offline WeepingAtlasCedars said
I decided to change my signature to this quote. I feel that my old one doesn’t really suit me now and, to be honest, I don’t really know that it ever truly did.
Although, swr never did answer when I asked if I could use it. Well, now’s his chance, I guess.
@sir walter raleigh, speak now or forever hold your peace.
Must have had a few drinks before I wrote that one. Don’t remember posting it. Its all yours 
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6.43am
26 January 2017
Offline I would like to echo ASJ’s warning, I too have been accosted by Irish citizens for using that term before. On reflection, their frustration was perfectly obvious.
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he was humming to the neon of the universal sound.
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1 January 2017
Offline I guess I shouldn’t have posted amidst all that
allow me to quote myself:
SgtPeppersBulldog said
So I opened a Rateyourmusic account earlier (Joe locked the original thread about it so I’m posting here) – anyone on there wanna be friends and guide me around?
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13 January 2019
Offline @SgtPeppersBulldog I just made an account 
This will probably give me something else to do. I don’t know how to add friends though.
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Getbackintheussr said
@SgtPeppersBulldog I just made an account
Can you guys post the links to your accounts? Mine is in my signature…
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12.33pm
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18 March 2013
Offline Awww feck, scarleh for myself, Varadkar is on the telly with a nifty jacket on and I thought “he’s looking good”. This is what isolation has done to me, I’ve now developed a crush on the Taoiseach- feck sake .
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12.51pm
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18 March 2013
Offline Great time for a comedian to reply to my above comment and say “who?”.
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Offline AppleScruffJunior said
Awww feck, scarleh for myself, Varadkar is on the telly with a nifty jacket on and I thought “he’s looking good”. This is what isolation has done to me, I’ve now developed a crush on the Taoiseach- feck sake
Cabin fever does strange things
out of curiosity, what is this nifty jacket of which you speak? 
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2.09pm
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18 March 2013
Offline It’s like a coat-jacket, he was putting it on and I was like “well, hello”.
The jacket in question:
Note: This photo does nothing for me, it was the mere 3 seconds of him putting the jacket on that made my non-existent glasses steam up.
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5 December 2019
Offline It happens.
Once a lad who I never found attractive in all my life was in a suit once and I was like “hmm okay….. interesting…..” and then I danced* with him because I was extremely bored and in the low light he kind of looked like a bootleg Beatle. It was the main topic at my friends’ after-party and we had many side-splitting laughs over the comments and allusions made about it when we were playing Jackbox games. I terribly regret that dance, now. My friends absolutely love to bring it up and bust my balls about it.
*it wasn’t very tasteful dancing
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