We Can Work It Out - Politics & Philosophy | Page 64 | Fab Forum | The Beatles Bible

Absolutely People realising that they are gay usually works just the same as straight people experiencing their hormones for the first time. The only difference is that straight people probably assume that’s what they are anyways, so it’s not really a realisation. 

The Hole Got Fixed said
The one argument that is used the most in favour of same-sex marriage etc is that scientifically it isn’t a choice, it’s how your brain is hard-wired.

It’s unfortunate that some people think this way. There’s nothing wrong with being gay because homosexuality is harmless and can be done between consenting adults, it’s a real shame that some people are only okay with it because “they can’t help it”.

Why would they risk death because of a ‘choice’

Because of freedom, wouldn’t you try to run away to a better place if you were being denied the freedom to do what you want to do?

I must say though, you guys have real good responses. I think we’re seeing it from different angles. I view it from the angle of does the guy have relationships with guys or girls whereas you guys appear to view it from the angle of does the guy get turned on by guys or girls.

There’s 2 reasons i view it from this angle. First, some may argue that since homosexuality isn’t a choice, any sexual preference isn’t a choice since you can only get an erection by that specific thing. Second, there are men who are only turned on by other men who prefer to have relations with women and men who are only turned on by girls who prefer to have relations with other men, they’re rare but they do exist.

See, the thing is that we aren’t denying that biology has an influence in the predispositions of men and woman… to a point. What we’re opposed to (or at least, what I’m opposed to) is that being used as an excuse to deny women an even shot at things. I think the most logical diagnosis is that it is a mixture between the factors of nature and nurture, but I don’t like restricting people’s choices based on an expectation of how they’re going to behave according to the categories they fall into. 

After all, critics of giving women the vote or the ability to seek employment and be financially independent from men argued that this wasn’t what women wanted anyway due to their inherent nature, but this hasn’t stopped billions of women voting and finding jobs once they had the chance. It’s easy to see an equality and pass it off as due to nature, but I think this process should be subject to much scrutiny at the very least to ensure its not due to other factors. 

Dark Overlord said

Why would they risk death because of a ‘choice’

Because of freedom, wouldn’t you try to run away to a better place if you were being denied the freedom to do what you want to do?

If it was a choice then gay people who lived in places like Nazi Germany would simply choose not to be gay. Clearly, they couldn’t do that. 

I must say though, you guys have real good responses. I think we’re seeing it from different angles. I view it from the angle of does the guy have relationships with guys or girls whereas you guys appear to view it from the angle of does the guy get turned on by guys or girls.

There’s 2 reasons i view it from this angle. First, some may argue that since homosexuality isn’t a choice, any sexual preference isn’t a choice since you can only get an erection by that specific thing. Second, there are men who are only turned on by other men who prefer to have relations with women and men who are only turned on by girls who prefer to have relations with other men, they’re rare but they do exist.

I’m not following. Why would someone prefer having relations with people they’re not attracted to? I can understand all the poor closeted gay people from previous generations who married someone of the opposite gender since that’s what was expected of them, but that’s a completely different thing.

QuarryMan said
If it was a choice then gay people who lived in places like Nazi Germany would simply choose not to be gay. Clearly, they couldn’t do that.

The problem is that it’s likely that the Nazis persecuted those with stereotypical gay attributes, but since these are stereotypes, they don’t always add up and you’d get straight people getting captured for displaying these features and gay people avoiding capture for not displaying these features.

For example, although i’m turned on by girls, i have a stereotypical gay voice, so i’d likely be sent to a concentration camp despite not being gay.

So i don’t think it would matter much whether or not homosexuality was a choice.

The way you sound is similar to your sexuality in that regards. If you really wanted to, you could fake your way through the proper accent but it typically doesn’t feel right. As for your second point, that’s true but but your voice and appearance can mean the difference between being caught and not being caught in certain homophobic areas, regardless of your sexuality.

Again, no one is denying that there are biological differences between men and women. What we’re saying is that we can’t put any instances of inequality in the workplace (and in life in general) solely down to biology when there are other factors that play a role that is just as big or even bigger.