We Can Work It Out - Politics & Philosophy | Page 17 | Fab Forum | The Beatles Bible

AppleScruffJunior said

Being a speaker of a language that a lot of people want to just let die, I feel that such a tremendous amount of culture, oral and written history amongst countless other things would be lost when a language isn’t protected or promoted properly. 

Between 50%-90% of the languages currently spoken in the world will be extinct by 2100 and it’s such a shame that such a wealth of treasures will be lost to the world, if people don’t want to/can’t learn the language.

I think languages that have 10> fluent speakers (native or as a second language) should be catalogued both written and orally and let the records be passed onto language students, many of whom (such as myself) would be honoured to be allowed to give a language a second lease in life.   

I feel for you @AppleScruffJunior , considering your love of languages. You are a rare breed.

Unfortunately, languages are also subject to something along the lines of “survival of the fittest”. As generations come and go, there is less and less emphasis on tradition and culture. In all my life, I can never remember being acquainted with such an alarming number of introverts. A large number of them are frighteningly dependent upon their computers, phones and other forms of escape from real life. I know this is going slightly off on a tangent, but it’s not that much of a stretch as to why languages are dying. It really is ironic. Today’s technology promotes a world in which people can openly communicate, yet that same technology promotes a society in which less people are speaking with each other. I see this in the business world more often than I’d care to. So called millennials are coming out of school with a wealth of knowledge, yet fail miserably because they can not express themselves or their ideas. It is painful to watch. These are not complaints, just observations of what I see in real life. If these folks are happy being that way, I support them. Meanwhile, I will be out living life, enjoying my surroundings and interacting with warm bodies. I love life.

I wish you the best of luck in preserving languages, ASJr. It won’t be easy. 

Martha said

What I consider as another problem is the efficiency that is so important today. Every single action of you is questioned and tested as to how much profit or progress it will bring you in life. It is not enough to justify your decisions with the words ‘It’s interesting’ or ‘It’s fun’, it always has to be of use in your future. In my surrounding, I noticed that far fewer children start to play an instrument or paint or really anything that has to do with culture since it would not ‘help them in their working life’. And the same phenomenon appears concerning languages. There are several smaller languages in our region like Plattdeutsch or Danish but no one would even bother learning them because in working life it only matters if you are able to speak English or Chinese or Russian… This new competing, efficient and success-obsessed society together with the lack of social communication of every individual as @Zig named it are responsible for cultural achievements to grow more unimportant steadily. Let’s just hope that the mentality of society will change a bit change again in the future towards culture preservation. 

You brought up some real life examples that I’ve seen first hand. The technical high school my nephew attends does a phenomenal job of preparing students for college and their careers beyond. They do learn Chinese like you mentioned and they simulate board room situations as if they were getting ready for a career in business. The thing that impresses me, however, is the fact that the school teaches them how to work together as a team. They are able to communicate verbally (imagine that!) and work toward a common goal. They are also encouraged to partake in some form of the arts, including music. He has chosen the guitar and has become quite good at it. Anyway, because of the strong real-life curriculum, he is thriving as both a student and a fine young man. Whenever I go back home for a visit, I look forward to speaking with him because he is interesting and knows how to communicate beyond awkward grunts. All of these things have led to colleges clamoring for him to go to their school. He is a Senior now and has not had to apply to any schools. They are applying to him. Before anyone thinks I’m bragging on just my nephew (I am, but that’s my prerogative), there are many of his classmates that are being pursued as well. This can be attributed directly to the curriculum the school puts forth. Like any person his age, he gets into all of the technology and loves it. But, he also knows how to throw a ball (he is an awesome baseball pitcher), how to be a human being who enjoys helping people and is not afraid to be a leader of others. Whether or not he enters the business world, I know he will be successful no matter what path he chooses – one career he is considering is becoming a teacher because he loves helping others. I can’t say the same thing about the people I mentioned in my original post above. It makes me sad that they are not more well-rounded. But, again, if they are happy being technology hermits, God bless ’em. Someone has to answer the phone when I call Tech Support.

I seem to have strayed away from the language topic, so I will close with these thoughts. Thank goodness, there are people like ASJr in this world who care about the preservation of languages and/or cultures. And, if all schools start leaning toward the importance of communication and working together, I am more optimistic about the future than I have been for quite some time. This is because our young men and women will actually be able to preserve and learn from the past instead of having blinders on looking for the latest technology. I strongly feel that the most successful people embrace both.

Starr Shine? said
Why is throwing a ball such a benefit?
 
   

Really? That’s all you took from that? It was a metaphor for “he doesn’t spend his whole life staring down at his phone – he can actually do other things”. The whole point of my thoughts – and this could have been about any kid – is that a more well-rounded individual will be better suited for the real world than the Millennials I have come in personal contact with. This is not to say that every person in that generational group fits the description. I can only go by the examples I’ve seen and am not ignorant enough to pain them all with the same broad brush. 

If this conversation was happening 50 years ago, would you be veiwing the television the same way as you are veiwing internet technology?

I’m not sure what point you are trying to make here, but 50 years ago I was 3 and only watched TV when it got too dark to play outside. At 14, I watched even less because that is how old I was when I got my first job. I watch much more now, but that’s only because Zag won’t play catch with me.  Even then, I don’t watch TV every night. Sometimes I read, sometimes I listen to music, sometimes I go out to visit with friends. Technology is awesome. I love it. But if forced to choose it over real life experiences, I am quite happy to leave the phone at home. I will survive.

Starr Shine? said
Personally I’m fine with genetic modification, it can help with some people’s children who could potentially inherit a horrible genetic disorder.

ASJ what are your thoughts on Constructed Languages?  

A-ha I finally have time to answer this!

I find constructed languages really fascinating. The fact that you can successfully create a language that stands out in its own right without relying too much on other languages is amazing. I’ve always wanted to learn Esperanto but I’m not sure if I’ll ever really get to anything beyond the basics. 

As regards my own knowledge constructed languages, I can speak a bit of Dothraki but that’s a very limited language in that it only has about 3000 words so you could never really use it as your sole language. 

I think they are a very interesting construction but if you had the choice between a genuine language created over thousands of years or a constructed language made within the last 100 years, I’d definitely pick the ‘organic’ language. In saying that, I do think learning Constructed Languages is a fun hobby and I’d love to become proficient in one, one day.

@Into the Sky with Diamonds said
ASJ, Back when I was a university student, I recited Baudelaire’s “Spleen” over a little guitar piece I composed. (Happy to send it over)  

Sweet, send it my way if you still have it. There is something about Baudelaire that makes you want to read his poetry while sipping a cup of coffee in a Parisian cafe, a cigarette hanging limply in your fingers and a street violinist playing in the background.

One of my favourite poems of his is ‘à une passante’- ‘to the girl passing by’ (it’s often translated as ‘to a passer-by’ but I prefer to express in the title that he’s referring to a woman).

La rue assourdissante autour de moi hurlait.
Longue, mince, en grand deuil, douleur majestueuse,
Une femme passa, d’une main fastueuse
Soulevant, balançant le feston et l’ourlet;

Agile et noble, avec sa jambe de statue.
Moi, je buvais, crispé comme un extravagant,
Dans son oeil, ciel livide où germe l’ouragan,
La douceur qui fascine et le plaisir qui tue.

Un éclair… puis la nuit! — Fugitive beauté
Dont le regard m’a fait soudainement renaître,
Ne te verrai-je plus que dans l’éternité?

Ailleurs, bien loin d’ici! trop tard! jamais peut-être!
Car j’ignore où tu fuis, tu ne sais où je vais,
Ô toi que j’eusse aimée, ô toi qui le savais!

Translated by William Aggler

The street about me roared with a deafening sound.
Tall, slender, in heavy mourning, majestic grief,
A woman passed, with a glittering hand
Raising, swinging the hem and flounces of her skirt;

Agile and graceful, her leg was like a statue’s.
Tense as in a delirium, I drank
From her eyes, pale sky where tempests germinate,
The sweetness that enthralls and the pleasure that kills.

A lightning flash… then night! Fleeting beauty
By whose glance I was suddenly reborn,
Will I see you no more before eternity?

Elsewhere, far, far from here! too late! never perhaps!
For I know not where you fled, you know not where I go,
O you whom I would have loved, O you who knew it!

Ah c’est génial