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50yearslate said

Dark Overlord said
But it doesn’t have to be that way. We also have Jacob Hornberger (Libertarian), Howie Hawkins (Green), Mark Charles (Independent), and many more candidates that aren’t corrupt senile rapists. It’s just that the Republicans and Democrats want you to think that it’s Biden vs Trump because they’re the parties of Wall Street.

Personally, i plan on voting for Jacob Hornberger because while his stance on healthcare and the free market is extremely naive, i agree with him on pretty much everything else and he’s the only major 3rd party candidate that has something for both Never Trump Republicans and Never Biden Democrats. My hope is that he wins at least one state, forcing a contingent election, and hopefully his stance on free market capitalism makes these corporate cronies vote for him.

The fact is it really is Biden vs. Trump. I’ve never heard of Jacob Hornberger in my life. If you’re voting based on principle alone that’s fine and good but none of those people have a snowball’s chance in hell of winning this election. The way American politics work it’s simply not going to happen. I don’t like Biden and I really don’t like Trump, but our president is going to be one of those two (unless maybe one of them dies and is replaced by someone else? I’m not sure what would happen in that situation). It really, really sucks, because they’re both terrible, but I just don’t see any other options.

While it’s unlikely that a 3rd party candidate will win, it’s not impossible. While they didn’t win, Theodore Roosevelt got 27% of the popular vote as a Progressive in 1912 and Ross Perot got 19% of the popular vote as an independent in 1992. And even if he loses, which he likely will, he can receive federal funding if he gets at least 5% of the popular vote and considering Libertarian Gary Johnson got 3% in 2016, i think he has a chance of passing that threshold.

But at the end of the day, i think people should vote for the candidate they want instead of reluctantly voting for the lesser of two evils. So if someone genuinely likes Joe Biden or Donald Trump, then i think they should vote for him but if they hate both candidates but hate Trump even more, then i think they should vote for the 3rd party candidate that aligns most with their views.

Ron Nasty said
I just think politics are so extreme in many countries at the moment, be it left or right, that those in the centre can say little without being attacked by members of their own party and the opposition. The truth is that Nancy Pelosi isn’t left enough for many youngsters on the left, and so they will find anything they can to beat over the head with.

I wonder if many would be criticising the statement had Bernie made it…

Unlike Trump supporters, I don’t think Bernie supporters deify Bernie nearly as much or refuse to acknowledge his failings. After all, the whole point of his campaign was ‘Not Me, Us’. Bernie doesn’t resort to insults and is probably the single most policy-focused mainstream American politicians, but if he did make such a statement then I would be confident that his support base would condemn it. 

As for whether their politics is extreme, I think it’s worth remembering that America is generally much further to the right than Europe – policies such as universal healthcare and the like are seen as being common sense in Europe, whereas in America they’re treated as radical authoritarianism. I’d even go so far as to say that the UK Conservatives are to the left of the US Democrats – on social issues they’re about as liberal as one another, and economically the UK Conservatives at least support the existence of the NHS. So it’s not just a case of Nancy Pelosi being just a bit too moderate for the crazy youngsters, the reality is that since she has received millions in donations from pharmaceutical companies, she has a financial incentive to support the existence of a corrupt healthcare sector wherein tens of thousands of people die every year from medical bankruptcy, a concept that would be seen as barbaric in most other countries.

Ron Nasty said
I do wonder why American doctors get away with prescribing prescription-only drugs that have no medical benefit. Had a UK doctor prescribed it for Boris just because Boris asked for it they would be struck off, but it seems in America that the rich and powerful can get any drug they demand whether there is any medical benefit or not.

It is absolutely disgusting how easy it is to get a prescription for things people should not have prescriptions for in the US. 

I know of somebody whose doctor prescribed them a drug they were asking for knowing that this person was previously addicted and had ended up in the hospital because of this drug just a year earlier. The doctor said no at first, but after a few more times of being asked, wrote the prescription. To make it worse, this was a primary care doctor who really has no business prescribing benzos to anybody in the first place. And people who don’t get what they want will just go from doctor to doctor until they find somebody willing to prescribe it to them. There will always be one that will. 

The Bush’s didn’t even vote for Trump. He did do and say a lot of things that warranted Republicans not supporting him, but you probably won’t see any big Democrats doing the same to Biden. 

This Tara Reade stuff has been the nail in the coffin for me with mainstream Democrats and their media cheerleaders. If you’re going to argue the ‘Believe All Women’ thing (a statement which I support within reason – increasing the amount of support and trust offered to victims has a positive correlation with more victims coming forward, and the rates of proven false accusers have always been very low, but then again belief should never been unconditional and should be based on the evidence), then if you’re really being honest with yourself you have to hold Joe Biden to the same standards as Brett Kavanaugh. One rule for me, another for thee. It’s hypocritical and completely transparent. 

It’s even more shameful that people have taken to combing through Tara Reade’s entire life story to find instances of her being dishonest in order to tarnish her credibility. I’ve genuinely seen people bring up, like, parking tickets and people she met that she didn’t get on with as proof that she must be lying about what happened, even after Joe has spent his entire career being publicly exposed for his constant lies. Remember when he claimed that he got arrested for trying to visit Nelson Mandela in jail on Robben Island? That’s been debunked, and he’s since admitted that all that happened was that – under Apartheid rules – he was separated from some of the ANC members at the airport.  Remember when he claimed that he was the first in his family to attend university? Turns out that was also untrue and he’d actually just directly plagiarised a speech from the UK Labour leader at the time, Neil Kinnock. The guy literally cannot stop himself from making stuff up. 

I suppose you could go full-on utilitarian and argue that technically, Trump has probably harassed/assaulted more people than Biden (the guy straight up admitted that he’s walked into female dressing rooms and forced himself on women etc), but when you’re at the stage of arguing which of two rapists is worse, you should probably just take a step back and acknowledge that something has obviously gone horribly 

Starr Shine? said
Voting third party in the US is pointless. There are two options, pick one.

But isn’t voting for a candidate you hate also pointless and a wasted vote?

Starr Shine? said
Both candidates are creeps. Though I rather have the country go more left than right and a biden president will make the country more left.

While it’s true that Biden’s more left than Trump (although both are right wing), it’s hard to say whether or not a Biden victory would push America further left because if Trump wins, then we have another chance of getting a progressive candidate in office whereas if Biden wins and seeks re-election, he’ll likely get the Democratic nomination in 2024, meaning that either he’ll get 2 terms or we’ll have a Republican victory in 2024 (which could mean another 4 years of Trump in the future).

And even in the off chance that he doesn’t seek re-election (or is impeached, resigns, or dies in office), his VP will likely get the nominee and considering that he’s a right wing centrist, he’d likely pick a right wing centrist like Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren to be his VP, meaning that we could be waiting up to 12 years for another chance of getting another shot of picking a good president.

But to be fair on Biden’s part, he hasn’t picked the VP yet so while it’s likely it’ll be someone like Hillary, he could surprise us with a more likable VP like Tulsi Gabbard.

lovelyritametermaid said
I guess we’d also have checks and balances actually being effective with Biden in office– and we wouldn’t have Trump being a freaking idiot and firing people left and right as well as putting people in his cabinet who literally have zero qualifications for what they have been put in charge of.

Good point.

Exactly, he lost due a combination of the more traditional Democrats and the DNC going out of their way to make sure a more conservative candidate got the nomination.