I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events | Page 33 | Fab Forum | The Beatles Bible

Mr SKCT said:

‘Yes, and the second fact is a non sequitur to the first. You’re suffering from Politician’s Logic, or just a need to be dismissive of the French and France based on the actions of Charles De Gaulle 70 years ago.’

MMM said:

‘Sorry but to claim it was a great act of America coming to the rescue is complete garbage.
You might as well go all the way, call all the French cowards, and have the Americans swinging onto the train from the nearest bridge waving their machine guns around their heads whilst singing the Star Spangled Banner. Which is probably how it will go in an American movie.’

Neither of those comment disprove the simple truth of those two facts. It’s not politician’s logic it’s common sense…….(Though there’s nothing common about sense it seems) And if it appears dismissive of The French (which it was)…..Isn’t your comment MMM indicative of the some similar bias against America? 

The Americans, Britain, The Commonwealth and Russia…..(once it changed sides) fought Germany and freed France. And it appears almost irrelevant now to you both and even vindictive and cruel of me to bring it up……….But thousands of men and women gave their tomorrows for your today.

I grew up still in the shadow of the war and played on the bomb sites in a shattered London. We knew where the bombs fell and we were told how many died and how many walked away. Respect for the casualties of war was, I guess, drilled into us. But also respect for our allies, and gratitude too. I suppose as we were never conquered that’s easier to feel……..Though it always struck me that if I’d been French I would have felt that gratitude even more deeply.

(I know I know I’m coming over like the bowler hatted character in AHDN !!) 

A glimpse at how times have changed……..From ‘Can we have our ball back mister?’……To kalashnikovs and box-cutters.

One thing that I noticed even in my formative years was the prickly resentment the French displayed, and to some extent still do…..towards their saviours……Particularly the Anglos saxons. 

The old joke that the difference between toast and a Frenchman is that you can make soldiers out of toast…….is ridiculous, funny but ridiculous …And before you start I don’t need a history lesson from any of you thanks to know the bravery shown by many French resistance members when it would have been easier to have gone into collaboration mode……And how many died horribly at the hands of the Gestapo.

However, I was very pleased to see that some of today’s generation have shown exactly the same courage as their forefathers did in Arras. And I found it ironic that once again the Americans led the way……..

Actually I think it would make a good film.

Edit: New reports…..

 “Contrary to reports, the French Interior Minister has said that it was in fact a French passenger who was the first to tackle the gunman.
Bernard Cazeneuve said that the passenger “who wanted to access the toilets in carriage 12, came across an individual with a Kalashnikov over his shoulder,” Cazeneuve told reporters.
He “courageously tried to tackle him before the attacker fired several shots,” he added.
The gunman was then tackled by two American off-duty serviceman, who “immobilised him on the floor and removed his weapon.”

 Unreserved congratulations to this guy..They all deserve medals.

Some of the trains staff come in for criticism though.

“11.40
The French actor Jean-Hugues Anglade, who was on board the Thalys train when the attacker was foiled, has hit out at train staff who he claims barricaded themselves away from the attacker, and refused to help the trapped passengers.
He described how the train staff had “pale faces”, and that they went towards their office, opened the door with a special key then shut themselves inside.
He added: “We hit the door, crying out for the staff to let us enter, we shouted “open!”, one hoped they would react. In vain… No one responded. Silent radio.
“This abandon, distress, lonliness, it’s terrible and unbearable! It was, for us, inhuman. Minutes felt like hours. I protected my children with all my body, repeatedly telling them it would all be OK.”

Let’s let the dust settle for a while.

Also hope that there are no more of these types of lone wolf actions.

Accepted. Thank you.

I don’t understand how you got the impression I was condescending to anyone that fought in your grandfather’s war…….My intention was quite the opposite.

I certainly would not fail to include the Canadian contribution to WWII……..After Pearl Harbour they actually declared war before The US.

Incidentally The US has invaded Canada twice. 1775 and 1812…..lost both times!!

To keep things in a lighter vein……..You’ve probably seen this but hey…………

ALERTS TO THREATS IN EUROPE: BY JOHN CLEESE

British writer, actor and tall person
The English are feeling the pinch in relation to recent events in Syria and have therefore raised their security level from “Miffed” to “Peeved.” Soon, though, security levels may be raised yet again to “Irritated” or even “A Bit Cross.” The English have not been “A Bit Cross” since the blitz in 1940 when tea supplies nearly ran out. Terrorists have been re-categorized from “Tiresome” to “A Bloody Nuisance.” The last time the British issued a “Bloody Nuisance” warning level was in 1588, when threatened by the Spanish Armada.

The Scots have raised their threat level from “Pissed Off” to “Let’s get the B******s.” They don’t have any other levels. This is the reason they have been used on the front line of the British army for the last 300 years.

The French government announced yesterday that it has raised its terror alert level from “Run” to “Hide.” The only two higher levels in France are “Collaborate” and “Surrender.” The rise was precipitated by a recent fire that destroyed France ‘s white flag factory, effectively paralyzing the country’s military capability.

Italy has increased the alert level from “Shout Loudly and Excitedly” to “Elaborate Military Posturing.” Two more levels remain: “Ineffective Combat Operations” and “Change Sides.”

The Germans have increased their alert state from “Disdainful Arrogance” to “Dress in Uniform and Sing Marching Songs.” They also have two higher levels: “Invade a Neighbour” and “Lose.”

Belgians, on the other hand, are all on holiday as usual; the only threat they are worried about is NATO pulling out of Brussels .

The Spanish are all excited to see their new submarines ready to deploy. These beautifully designed subs have glass bottoms so the new Spanish navy can get a really good look at the old Spanish navy.

Australia, meanwhile, has raised its security level from “No worries” to “She’ll be alright, Mate.” Two more escalation levels remain: “Crikey! I think we’ll need to cancel the barbie this weekend!” and “The barbie is cancelled.” So far no situation has ever warranted use of the last final escalation level.

A final thought – ” Greece is collapsing, the Iranians are getting aggressive, and Rome is in disarray. Welcome back to 430 BC”.

Well you certainly were and are a thing………

It’s become fashionable to bash America….and Americans…..But you should treat it as a compliment…(though I’ll probably get shot for saying that).

There are a lot of revisionist histories of the American Revolution , written mostly by Americans……..And of course that film Patriot. Unfortunately a lot of us get our history from Hollywood and it sticks. Depicting the British soldiers as rampaging nazis was some way away from the truth.

There were more summary executions carried out by The continental Army than by the British. The British won more battles than they lost. More British soldiers died from swamp fever, or were lost to desertion or the arms of American women than were killed in battle. The British were better as an army of conquest than they were  at occupation. They could never hold on to the cities they’d won….And when the game was up and they knew they were losing there was a decision to lose like gentlemen and they can take credit for that at least.

The French did indeed play a part. Britain was at it’s closest to being invaded around 1775-80 and so needed to concentrate on protecting itself. Wars with the French, Spanish and later the Dutch meant that supply lines were stretched and in any case there had been little support for this war with the colonists. America was our Vietnam. Many Parliamentarians openly supported the Colonists. 

At New York large French cannon and their navy played a crucial part in victory……..But

George Washington was the single most important factor in why you won and we lost.

By the end the British had the greatest respect for him. He’d turned ordinary farmers into an Army that could match anyone. The British leaders were slammed by the press at home and praise was heaped upon Washington.

When news came years later that George Washington had died the British Navy fired a salute…….and to this day a statue of him stands next to England’s greatest ever commander, Nelson in Trafalgar Square.

The British learnt their lessons in that war…particularly how to skirmish and have weapons you could actually aim. It won them Europe.

For all her faults……America as you say Annadog did indeed become, ‘a thing’ and stands as the last great hope for the world.

I yield the floor to my usual detractors.