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6.28pm
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29 August 2013
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“Anything that is in the constitution stays in there.”
Times change – so should ancient thinking now and again.
==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==
6.30pm
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29 August 2013
Offline “They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true“
I disagree with whoever said this. Some people think it’s okay to lop your hand off for stealing an apple – I will debate with them until I am six feet under.
Oh, and you forgot the most interesting part of that saying 🙂
==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==
6.49pm
17 October 2013
Offline Annadog40 said
Wigwam said
They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true….. I’d argue that any, even oblique criticism of ‘The American Constitution’ does both, such is the intensity, the almost religious regard felt for the work of The Founding Fathers……(though just one of them did the heavy lifting).
I agree about the Constitution. Anything that is in the constitution stays in there. That is why they had to create another ammendment (21st) to negate prohibition (18th amendment).
Did you know during ‘Prohibition’ 10,000 Americans were poisoned by the American government?
7.44pm
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17 December 2012
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I do not think many of us non-Americans who have a reasonable understanding of things do underestimate the love many Americans have for their guns, I just think we find it incomprehensible the lack of willingness to control who can own weapons legally, and what type of weapons they can own.
annadog40 made a claim about tests and background checks. Being polite, and accepting she may be unaware of this, but the claim is false. No tests or background checks are needed if you buying a gun privately or from a gun show. A law to expand background checks to those sales formats was defeated by the Senate in 2013.
I, personally, hate the 2nd Amendment, and the way it is waved. The guns the Founding Fathers spoke of were very different to today’s guns. I believe, maybe wrongly, that had the Founding Fathers had any idea that guns would develop to become the weapons they are now, and how their words would be used to support the ownership of those weapons, they might have framed the Amendment rather differently. Saying somebody has a right to own a musket is very different to saying somebody has a right to a semi-automatic.
Those closer to the Founding Fathers in terms of time frame saw no problems with placing limitations on the 2nd Amendment. It was often the case that the carrying of weapons in many frontier towns was banned with the town limits. In fact, with the banning of fully automatic weapons, the American government has already recognised that some weapons are just too dangerous.
Should the lawmakers and – more importantly – the people decide enough is enough, not even the false barrier of the Constitution could stand in the way. The Founding Fathers had no understanding of assualt-style weapons or high-capacity ammo clips, so Americans should stop hiding behind their frock coats and claiming that’s what they would have wanted.
A properly handled licensing system, like you get with cars, would probably have stopped some of these massacres. We (the UK) are not a country without the problems of illegal weapons, and the violence they are often involved in, but – thankfully – because of our gun controls we have very few mass shootings with legally-held weapons (I can only think of two in my lifetime!). It seems the majority (if not all) of these regular US mass shootings are not done by some criminal with an illegal weapon, but by those with legal weapons. This current arsehole was given the gun for his 21st birthday by his father. He shot and killed 9 people within two months. I doubt any background checks were done into him in that process, though the father might have been background checked (depending where he got the gun)… just not the person the gun was going to.
"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966
8.13pm
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1 May 2011
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The argument that to stop or deter folk getting killed by guns is to arm everyone else (or make it possible for them to be armed) is the most stupid argument ever (to stop people getting killed arm more people as they will then be safer).
Yip it it will piss folk off but as soon as all those pro-bearing arms get a reality check and agree to make it far tougher to get access to guns the safer the country will be.
But its in your constitution so what does it matter than folk are getting gunned down, far better to stick to something written centuries ago.
"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
8.26pm
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20 August 2013
Offline Is this a good report on the state of gun control and gun deaths in the UK?
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8.32pm
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20 August 2013
Offline Here’s an interesting statistics comparison.
Can buy Joe love! Amazon | iTunes
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8.38pm
17 October 2013
Offline trcanberra said
“They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true“I disagree with whoever said this. Some people think it’s okay to lop your hand off for stealing an apple – I will debate with them until I am six feet under.
Oh, and you forgot the most interesting part of that saying 🙂
I don’t know it??
8.46pm
Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline The report seems pretty accurate, @Ahhh Girl.
The statistics, while interesting, I think slightly less valid as they refer to all gun crime rather than this particular type of gun crime – the mass shooting with a legally held weapon. I am sure the USA would be near the top, and probably sadly at the top, of that particular chart.
"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966
8.52pm
1 November 2013
Offline 
Some places in the U.S. require a licensed gun dealer to preform background checks on the person receiving the gift before the gift giver is allowed to give the gun to them. Maybe that could be something that should be implemented everywhere in the U.S.
9.18pm
17 October 2013
Offline …….And most of us Brits don’t know that the American Constitution was almost a perfect re-drafting of the English Bill of Rights 1689. Which also included the right for all to bear arms . ….James 11 having earlier disarmed the protestants.
I agree with Nasty and trCanberra on this. In the agrarian world Jefferson and Co lived in… they could not have envisaged our world today. For example, how any slick Harvard lawyer worth his salt could turn the Constitution inside out to equate freedom of speech with pornography.
That’s the trouble with constitutions they can mean what you want them to mean.
But Americans set store by it and who’s going to tell them different?
To be fair and to try to add some balance……. It’s hard to deny, (though perhaps difficult to prove), how many crimes are prevented by guns in the hands of the good guys.
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Oudis, Ahhh Girl9.31pm
Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline It only works as a Federal law, @Starr Shine?. It’s almost worthless if you just have to cross the border into the next state. Then you set up a situation where irresponible States more interested in the business than the ethics compete to become the easiest place to get a gun. It’s made totally useless unless it also includes private sales and gun shows. Without uniform Federal laws that cover all legal transactions involving firearms there can only be failure… but that would be gun control!
Of course, there is an easy way around the 2nd Amendment. Don’t control guns, let the feckers buy as many as they want of any sort, just control the ammunition, make that the thing you make the ownership of licensed and controlled. Guns without bullets are sticks, and much less deadly to a crowd.
"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
To @ Ron Nasty it's @ mja6758
The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966
11.54pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline Wigwam said
trcanberra said
“They say never discuss politics or religion……….It’s true“I disagree with whoever said this. Some people think it’s okay to lop your hand off for stealing an apple – I will debate with them until I am six feet under.
Oh, and you forgot the most interesting part of that saying 🙂
I don’t know it??
S E X 🙂
==> trcanberra and hongkonglady - Together even when not (married for those not in the know!) <==
8.44am
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20 August 2013
Offline Here in the US the third thing we are told not to discuss with strangers, in addition to politics and religion, is baseball.
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trcanberraCan buy Joe love! Amazon | iTunes
Check here for "how do I do this" guide to the forum. (2017) (2018)
9.12am
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17 December 2012
Offline I have it on a higher authority that it’s not baseball you shouldn’t talk about, @Ahhh Girl…
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meanmistermustard, Von Bontee, trcanberra, Beatlebug"I only said we were bigger than Rod... and now there's all this!" Ron Nasty
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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966
9.25am
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1 May 2011
Offline I love Linus’s obsession with the Great Pumpkin.
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Von Bontee"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
12.23pm
8 November 2012
Offline Billboard article: Paul McCartney Honors Charleston Shooting Victims in between Classics at Firefly
At a point, his show turned political, as he paid his respects to the victims of the Charleston, S.C. shooting that claimed nine lives earlier in the week. “Let’s take a moment to pray for peace and harmony amongst people of different colors in the world,” said McCartney, seated behind a piano. A chill-inducing rendition of “The Long And Winding Road ” followed, a noble tribute to the victims of a senseless act.
parlance
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Oudis, Beatlebug2.15am
15 May 2014
Offline Wigwam said
…….And most of us Brits don’t know that the American Constitution was almost a perfect re-drafting of the English Bill of Rights 1689. Which also included the right for all to bear arms . ….James 11 having earlier disarmed the protestants.
Wow. I didn’t know it either. Thanks, @Wigwam
“Forsan et haec olim meminisse juvabit” (“Perhaps one day it will be a pleasure to look back on even this”; Virgil, The Aeneid, Book 1, line 203, where Aeneas says this to his men after the shipwreck that put them on the shores of Africa)
1.54am
19 September 2010
Offline Ron Nasty said
annadog40 made a claim about tests and background checks. Being polite, and accepting she may be unaware of this, but the claim is false. No tests or background checks are needed if you buying a gun privately or from a gun show. A law to expand background checks to those sales formats was defeated by the Senate in 2013. (…) Should the lawmakers and – more importantly – the people decide enough is enough, not even the false barrier of the Constitution could stand in the way. The Founding Fathers had no understanding of assualt-style weapons or high-capacity ammo clips, so Americans should stop hiding behind their frock coats and claiming that’s what they would have wanted.
First Off: Obviously, what happened in Charleston was awful. I just want it on the record that I accept it awful.
Secondly @Ron Nasty (Italics added) The problem with that is that the 2013 Bill that died in the Senate had 90% popular support. The large problem is that the people who don’t support additional restrictions are the ones who vote in the Primaries for Republic candidates for the House of Reps and Senate. Since 2010 (So, the last 3 electoral cycles), Republican incumbents have either lost their battle to win renomination for their seat or had to tack so far to the right to win. The people can want it all they want, but for as long as a Republican Senator or representative from Idaho or the Dakotas or Louisiana (or any other deep red state) faces his only serious competition in his re-election battle from somebody on his or her right – in other words, somebody more extreme than him or her – there’s no way anything changes. Whether you think the laws should change or not, if they were going to change they would have after the Newtown shooting. Or the Dark Knight shooting in Aurora. Or Tuscon, and the Gabriel Giffords shooting. Or any of the other examples in the last 25 years.
Other note: The US is the only country that doesn’t respond to something like this. In Canada, the École Polytechnique Massacre of 1989 (the Wiki link does a good job explaining the basics) led to significant changes to the gun laws. It was accepted it had to be done. And now, there’s been 2 mass shootings in Canada since 1989.
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10.12am
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14 April 2010
Offline mr. Sun king coming together said
Other note: The US is the only country that doesn’t respond to something like this.
I beg to differ. There is always a response. Unfortunately the N.R.A. (Neanderthal Retarded A******s) responds in a larger way by lining the pockets of and providing favors for politicians.
Makes me want to puke.
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