I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events | Page 126 | Fab Forum | The Beatles Bible

So many people try to delegitimize trans people by reducing gender to sex.  By saying there are only 2 biological sexes.  But biology isn’t as simple as this argument pretends it is.  Intersex people in many different variations exist.  There are not just 2 sexes.

Just because most Intersex people choose a side doesn’t negate the fact that they’re literally being pressured to choose a side to the point of genital mutilation in some cases. I’m sure many Intersex people happily identify as a man or a woman, but I wonder how many might just identify as somewhere in-between if it was remotely socially acceptable to do so.

Another way to think about this.  Intersex people make up 1.5% of the population so more than 1 in 100 people are intersex.  That means we pretty much all know someone who’s intersex, but most of us probably haven’t known for sure that someone we know is Intersex.  A part of this probably comes from people not even knowing they’re intersex. I think if it was more socially acceptable, people might be more open about it though too.

If biological sex is this complicated, why not gender too?

As for hermaphrodite, the primary reason not to use it is that it’s scientifically inaccurate. It is also considered offensive in part because it’s inaccurate.  Accepted language changes overtime. That’s how it goes.

50yearslate said
@Wigwam I’m sorry but I just really, really don’t understand. What is so repulsive about referring to somebody with their preferred pronouns, even if those pronouns don’t necessarily ‘match’ their biological sex? What gives you the right to choose their label? It’s their identity, not yours, and it’s really not that hard to add on a little ‘s’ or replace it with a simple ‘they.’ Surely that teensy-weensy amount of effort is worth it to respect someone’s identity?

  

Words have a meaning…..and nuance, we both understand that.

For instance I understand from its context that you’re not using ‘sorry’ in you’re opening sentence in the sense that you’re feeling any distress, or sympathy with someone else’s misfortune’.

I understand that neither are you feeling genuine regret or penitence over something you’ve done.

You’re saying politely that you are sorry that you’re finding what I’m saying confusing, or frankly daft. Now that’s maybe my fault in that I haven’t been clear enough in explaining myself….Or your fault in that you can’t understand the point of principle I find so important because you find it either trivial or lacking in empathy.

We must agree to differ…..More on this later.

But then you introduce a strange and weighted adjective …….’repulsive’…..Where does that come from? It certainly has no relationship to anything I’ve said. It comes from you and you choses it for your own reasons.

Coming from an unprotected minority group myself, namely:……a straight, pale, stale, male ……over my years I’ve come to terms with the changes that appear in language….That’s if ‘wicked’ and ‘bad’ still mean ‘good’ these days……”Gee-wiz’…… Why not?….. ‘Awful’ used to mean ‘good’ too!…..And for information: ‘gee-wiz’ came about in my lifetime as a polite alternative to using ‘Jesus’ as an exclamation. I’ve accepted we’ve lost the word ‘gay’ to describe something bright and colourful……..

I can go along with your reasons for why ‘hermaphrodite’ is an outdated term….Sadly there’s not much knowledge of, or love for the ‘Erotes’ these days…….

As for the rest?…. Perhaps if you can face the truth ……watch this……..At least you’ll understand my resistance to denying reality.

Beatlebug said
The way I read it, @Wigwam doesn’t have a problem using someone’s preferred pronouns as long as it makes basic practical sense to do so. Now, your sense might differ from his, but he seems perfectly reasonable to me — especially for an old geezer.

Also, I believe most intersex people identify as either a he or a she.

Also also, it’s their identity, and what words other people use to describe someone (usually based on subconscious cues) is not their identity, it’s words other people use to describe them. I understand that some words feel more accurate than others, but you have to make it so that other people also think it’s accurate if you want to move through life being described accurately without bother.

  

Well said……Thank you for understanding me.

A

Beatlebug said

Wigwam said

Then I’m an arsshole……

But I’m a ‘happy with myself a*****e’.

 

I guess I am too.

  

A******s are like opinions…….everybody has one.

PS my postal vote acceptance came through very quickly……