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The Hole Got Fixed said

Wigwam said

It would be wonderful if the lesson this teaches us was truly understood by more of the UK’s and the US’ youth and some on this board……It demonstrates to our youth how precious democracy actually is to the young of Hong Kong……

I feel I’m often written off here at least in part because I’m from an older generation. My concerns for their generation don’t signify…..But take a look at the barricades  …. it’s not old farts of my age on the streets in Hong Kong it’s young men and women who are fighting for self-determination and resisting bravely however they can what they know would be the death knell of socialism/communism on their wishes, aspirations…….and happiness. 

 

I wish the woke would wake-up.

  

I would argue the woke have awoken. Being one of these ‘woke’ people, I would argue that many people my age have a strong viewpoint. 

It can be seen in the latest poll: https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfr…..kers_w.pdf

The young generation are taking action all over the world. In Hong Kong, the youth are protesting for democracy. In other places, we’re protesting for climate action. I will be in a few weeks. We have awoken and we are fighting for what we believe in.

Democracy is important, I fully agree. But when it toys with our future, we get angry and take action.

  

Good, that’s good……

Maybe I have misunderstood the seeming clamour amongst the ‘woke’…to divest themselves of the essential freedoms that their near and far ancestors fought and often died for…And they just see socialism as ‘free stuff’….And freedom of speech…..? as speech they select…. for themselves and the unwoke to abide by……..Otherwise they feel justified and virtuous in shutting speech down…….(See Berkley’s full circle).

‘Democracy is important, I fully agree. But when it toys with our future, we get angry and take action.’……

…………..That’s precisely what democracy offers you through the ballot box and freedom of speech……and peaceful demonstration. 

We agree I think……That’s great….. so either I’m woke too…..or we’re both unwoke…. ??

Whatever ….Cheers.

Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam finally declares the withdrawal of the extradition bill which sparked the continuing protests in the past few months.

At least the persistence of HK citizens has reached temporary victory. But too late, too late. If the government had made this decision in June, that would’ve put an end to the movement; now they have caused blood and hatred, and residents won’t stop their parade unless all their demands are met. I will definitely support their actions, but I’m still unsure of where this is going. Calling for withdrawal of a bill isn’t too harmful to the government, general elections? Beijing won’t allow this peacemaking.

Lmao Intersex people exist so you can shut up about biology until you actually know what you’re talking about.

The Hole Got Fixed said

Wigwam said

The Hole Got Fixed said

So are you the type to call someone based on what their birth certificate originally said or what they’d like you to call them by? Because I care about others feelings and if it helps their mental health if I call them something with a different set of sounds, then I will. It takes no extra effort on my part and it makes their life better.

  

Yes there are only two biological sexes……..Now if some bloke asks me to call him  Mable I would. Why not? But if someone tells me I must call a him ‘she’ and uses some form of coercion or emotional blackmail as you describe to compel me…Sorry….I won’t and we can wave goodbye……

I won’t bow to PC pressure or be told what to do….If that’s Ok with you? The woke are tolerant aren’t they? They can respect other people’s views can’t they? If you’re woke you really ought to respect mine.

Yes, we are tolerant, and I’m respecting your view, as you and your brain are the only tools that craft your view. However, I’m simply stating that views similar to yours, even if it’s something small like your attitude of ‘sorry I won’t’ have a high correlation to the insanely high suicide rate of the group of people that don’t fall into the handy labels or are transgender. In fact, almost all surveys find that more than a third of all trans people (and I’d assume non-binary people would be around the same if not higher) have attempted suicide. PC (something we’ve discussed in great detail over a number of classes in English class recently) is in place for a reason – to protect people in a minority.

So I’m sorry, if I have to choose between respecting your view or someone else’s life, it’s someone’s life all the way, as I’m sure you’d agree that someone’s life is always more important than a view – if it came to my view or someone’s life I wouldn’t care about my view.

A little over dramatic… but hey!

The suicide rate is high amongst trans communities …….Although it’s doesn’t get a direct mention on wiki perhaps it should.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide

But mental disorders like depression, schizophrenia, bi-polar disorder, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, alcoholism, financial difficulties, gambling, medical conditions, bullying, prejudice, those who have experienced childhood sexual abuse etc overlap the genders and can all apply to anyone around you whatever their sexual orientation.

Life is potentially s**t sometimes for everyone…. Particularly western men who commit suicide 3 or 4 times mores so than western women.

Of course life is important and if it could be shown that my acquiesce in calling a ‘he/him’ a ‘her/she’ would mean so much to a complete stranger that it would save his/her life then I’m all for it.

But I’m saying kindness and good manners should come from the heart…..not out of an arbitrary insistence of compliance to some drummed up PC insanity.

I’m against pandering to, let’s say, a white male who identifies and insist on being addressed to as a half-black half-native American trans woman……I’d rather top myself quite honestly!!!

I’m a smelly, unwashed, Walmart shopping, Trump, Farage and Boris supporter……

 

That’s nice?

This might help, considering your situation: https://www.walmart.com/browse…..81_4735846

The self description isn’t actually 100% accurate ……You can amuse yourself deciding which parts are accurate  and which parts are not.

Did you study sarcasm at that school you go to……..? If you did…… I’d ask for your money back!

Wigwam said 

I didn’t feel the need to mention hermaphrodites as they are only about 1.5 % of births………. They usually come down one way or the other after puberty…..What side they decide to bat for in that case I’d certainly go along with…….

You say…….

Using the stat I found that 1.7% of the population are intersex, and there are 7.7 billion people in the world right now, that means that…

Roughly the population of Mexico (or Japan) is the same number of people in the world that are intersex. Are you going to write off 131,000,000 people?

  

That’s not what I said at all…. Have another read. 

Cheers 

Wigwam said

Kaniffee said

Lmao Intersex people exist so you can shut up about biology until you actually know what you’re talking about.

  

I didn’t feel the need to mention hermaphrodites as they are only about 1.5 % of births………. They usually come down one way or the other after puberty…..What side they decide to bat for in that case I’d certainly go along with…….

  

First of all calling them hermaphrodites is inaccurate, and considered an offensive term besides.  That implies they have fully functioning sex organs of both male and female.   No form of being intersex is like this.

There’s a lot of ways someone could be intersex.  Having some combination of sex organs that are both male and female is the most obvious way.  And it’s the version to be most notable at birth.  But you can also be intersex because of your hormones.  A lot of people are born with male bodies, have female hormones and they generally go through life as a woman.  You can also be intersex from a chromosomal perspective.  People with Klinefelter’s syndrome (XXY) are intersex.  Some one who has chromosomes XX but outwardly looks like a man is intersex.

As for the puberty thing.  Do you realize how common it is for someone to not even know they’re intersex until later in life?  A lot of times the doctor notices that they’re intersex at birth and asks the parent “choose” what sex they want their kid to be.  And then the doctor chops the dick off of a newborn and pretends that isn’t genital mutilation.  Intersex people usually suffer trauma and health effects from this kind of thing even though they don’t “remember” it.

All this to say Intersex people are pressured by society to choose “one way or another” to try to fit into a box that doesn’t match them perfectly, and they suffer a great deal because of this.

Some are even assigned one gender at birth, but later feel more the other gender, and end up thinking they were trans, but they were actually just intersex.  Their parents and doctor just thought it was okay to surgically alter their sex organs without their consent as a newborn. 

The Hole Got Fixed said
I just need to preface this by saying I won’t be on here much for the next week and a bit so if I don’t reply it’s because I haven’t had a chance to do so, or it’s been too long to be relevant anymore.

 

Logically, you calling someone by the pronoun they want will help in a small way to their mental health, something trans/non-binary people very often struggle with. If every single person on the planet did this, logically their mental health would improve as everyone is accepting them for who they are and can get on with their lives. 

On the flip side, if someone is hanging on by a thread, a day where a number of people called them by a different pronoun might just be enough to make them snap – it’s small, but people on a thread only need a small prod to tip them over the edge, so…

I’m against pandering to, let’s say, a white male who identifies and insist on being addressed to as a half-black half-native American trans woman……I’d rather top myself quite honestly!!!

I think I’ll interpret that as a joke…

That one wasn’t a joke……It was a made up example based on similar demands.

Did you study humour at that school you went to……..? If you did…… I’d ask for your money back!

No I didn’t…….I don’t think humour should be studied……In any case neither did you if you’re resorting to stealing my material……(I’m joking).

Of course I realised that wasn’t true and you were having a laugh, and I thought I’d have a laugh too… goodness me!

I’ll take your word on that.

Wigwam said 

I didn’t feel the need to mention hermaphrodites as they are only about 1.5 % of births………. They usually come down one way or the other after puberty…..What side they decide to bat for in that case I’d certainly go along with…….

You say…….

Using the stat I found that 1.7% of the population are intersex, and there are 7.7 billion people in the world right now, that means that…

Roughly the population of Mexico (or Japan) is the same number of people in the world that are intersex. Are you going to write off 131,000,000 people? 

That’s not what I said at all…. Have another read. 

Cheers 

  

I was referring to the first thing you said: ‘I didn’t feel the need to mention hermaphrodites as they are only about 1.5 % of births’

No you said:…..

Using the stat I found that 1.7% of the population are intersex, and there are 7.7 billion people in the world right now, that means that…Roughly the population of Mexico (or Japan) is the same number of people in the world that are intersex. Are you going to write off 131,000,000 people? 

I said when it comes to hermaphrodites that they usually decide around puberty what side the want to go into bat for and importantly I’ll go along with their decision…….That is not writing them off. That’s the opposite to writing them off.

I followed up with the I think reasonable objection that I have a problem going along with those who decide to identify as a sex or ethnicity that they are clearly not….And that I must do so because they say so………A truth isn’t true for me  just because someone says it is their truth…….

But I suppose my question is: if you can support intersex people, why can’t you support people who want to be called a specific (or non-specific) pronoun? Personally I can’t really see much of a difference and am quite curious as to why you feel the need to, for a lack of a better word, discriminate against those who would like different pronouns?

  

You see the irony here is that I probably have had more social interactions with transgender men than everyone on this board put together…….never a problem….Never a harsh word. 

Never a demand made on my behaviour or my choice of vocabulary. (I speak Thai)…….No more expectation of politeness than would be the case in any social interaction…….

As I’ve said all along good manners given and received is all that should be necessary ……….When it comes over to me as demands being upon me to follow someone else’s instructions ……… I’m moving on.