I read the news today (oh boy) - Current world events | Page 123 | Fab Forum | The Beatles Bible

It’s exactly their plan…A blind man can see through their strategy. 

There was a deal on the table……..Parliament rejected it once (under the threat of no deal)…twice, (under the increased threat of a no deal)……three times….(practically ensuring that the outcome would be no deal) They don’t care because that’s the card they are playing….

The remainers have remained remainers and don’t want a deal….That leaves the only option are a bad deal or a no deal that’s what they’ve sought to bring about in the hope that the electorate will be cowed into rejecting both……

……..Then when their machinations look like coming to fruition they have the bleeding audacity to gasp, clutch at their pearls and have the vituperations………….Screaming Executive betrayal, abuse of power and the destruction of the UK………..

But business has adjusted and just wants to get on with it……..

The words ‘No deal’ in any case is a misnomer as ‘No deal’ contains deals of many kinds that safeguard vital imports and services……And benefits for the UK too.

They’ve sought for 3 years now to overturn the first vote in the referendum with a so called, ‘people’s vote’ (they try to avoid the embarrassing admission that would occur if they honestly used the words, ‘2nd referendum’.. So they call it a ‘People’s vote’ which suggests the first vote was for bloody aardvarks!!! 

The good news is that Boris’ hard line is actually much more likely to give us a decent deal one that that MPs will find hard to reject if they ever want to see the inside of Parliament again.

If it happens that a ‘no deal’ on IMF terms is the result then the world’s 5th largest economy will weather the storm and flourish again.

If it leads to another GE….So be it. I’m not ‘frit’

Personal point……I must stress I have skin in this ‘game’…..My spending power has halved in the last few years…..The Thai baht when I retired here to be only a 9 hour flight to my son in Australia 12 years ago was 70 to the pound……Due in large part to all the uncertainty and lack of progress over Brexit it’s meant that the Thai baht today stands at around 37 to the pound….I’ll get by and I don’t regret the referendum vote one bit.

The referendum hurt me personally but it’s worth the pain if it means I will finally see the UK free and sovereign again……..We’d signed up 40 years ago to an European economic trade area …Not a political union where we will be subservient to an unelected unaccountable European bureaucracy…….

I grown accustomed to the sight of the removal van outside No 10 Downing St every 5 years…….If we stay in the EU abomination…..It won’t matter who we vote for or who our PM is?

Freedom and self determination is worth a bit of pain…….Well to me it is.

Ron Nasty said
‘Tis often the claim made by those who believe in Brexit; however, had the ERG (European Research Group) Tories and the DUP (Democratic Unionist Party) voted for the Theresa May’s deal, with those Labour MPs who voted for the deal every time it was put forward, it would have been passed.

The deal was defeated by a combination of leave and remain MPs, and to blame only remain MPs is disingenuous to say the least. There are just as many leavers who don’t really want a deal.

  

I accept that’s a valid criticism. Members of the ERG and other Brexiteers absolutely voted against Mays ‘deal’……But for very different reasons to the remainers…..

And ’tis there we find the rub.

The ERG members and others who either voted against the withdrawal deal or abstained openly admitted they would prefer no deal over the deal on the table which tied us into many aspects of the EU without the means of control over our future escape ….In other words in their eyes it was worse than the current position. For many of them the risks/rewards of a no deal was preferable……. However, I feel that even most staunch brexiteers would prefer a fair and mutually beneficial deal over a ‘no deal’ 

But it’s clear they want to leave…….With or without a deal

The remainers voted against May’s deal….not because the deal wasn’t satisfactory……and not because they wanted a no deal…..They voted against it because they don’t want a deal of any sort……They want to remain……The risks of a no deal to them was balanced against a strategy that tactical delay after tactical delay… would lead either through a change of Government/Conservative leadership…..or through a 2nd referendum the possibility of overturning the original majority for leave.

……Though even if the majority for leave was increased in a 2nd referendum the misnamed Liberal Democrats through their new leader have said they wouldn’t accept that affirmation as being binding on them…..Their individual conscience trumping the democratic process…..Lovely!

QuarryMan said

Wigwam said

There are about 20 civil servants that earn as much as our PM……..Close to 16,000 EU eurocrats are on Boris’ salary…..4000 earn more than Mother Merkel. 

  

Indeed, but surely the sheer size of Britain’s civil service far outweighs that anyway..? 

  

I haven’t done the maths on that……But….

Our civil servants actually actually work for their living.

Accurate sentiments TJ regarding the cynical capricious nature of our MPs….. 

There are still some politicians who vote by their conscience……..Though very few however would survive the Party selection process if that intention was ever made explicit.

Resigning the Whip usually spells the end of a political career…..MPs like their jobs. 

The disunity bordering on betrayal displayed in Parliament and May’s repeated broken promises/threats/red lines have meant that the EU haven’t yet had to negotiate seriously.

It might be too late…..it might not. The EU have shown that can change any rule or convention when it suits…..We’ll see. 

QuarryMan said

Indeed, but surely the sheer size of Britain’s civil service far outweighs that anyway..?  

I haven’t done the maths on that……But….

Our civil servants actually actually work for their living.

However much they get paid and however much work they do doesn’t change the fact that they aren’t democratically elected or accountable to the public. Either you’re being a hypocrite, or using the proxy of caring about democracy when you actually care about… salaries? Or productiveness? 

  

If hypocrisy was helium QM we’d all speak with funny voices……..And 90% of our politicians would float away.

However here I think you’re under a misapprehension of what my gripe really is…That may be my fault so let me explain in more detail…..(I can hear the yawns but don’t fall asleep…5555!)

Every country has an unelected bureaucracy or civil service that’s necessary to implement Government decisions and advise the Executive…..It’s true some in the very highest echelons of the civil service have enormous influence…..But their role is restricted to giving their best and impartial advice to whatever the flavour of Government the electorate has put into power…….The civil service are not elected because they have no power. The ministers they serve have the power given to them through the electoral process. The same process can be used to get rid of that minister. That’s how I understand democracy.

I don’t know but let’s assume the EU ‘civil service’  behaves similarly…..let’s also assume that the numbers are smaller in the EU because each country’ has its own civil servants already and therefore their needs are already catered for.

Next it’s important to understand that the elected Legislature’s role is to hold the elected Executive to account. And at the end of the day if the electorate are unhappy the removal van appears at No 10….The Élysée Palace or wherever Merkel puts her head down.

Now for the next part, sorry QM with your cold and all but I need to post a link on the ‘Democratic legitimacy deficit of the EU’….It’s just so convoluted to explain but not, I believe in principle to understand: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…..pean_Union

Hopefully you’ll see my point.

To lighten the mood here’s an old clip of probably, (if we’re honest) pointedly the only MEP you and I know the name of……….Until this attack that is….And then we knew two….5555. Now the subject of the attack, (then on a salary greater than Obama’s at the time) has long gone……And you know immediately the name of the current President don’t you?