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4.06am
26 January 2017
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I don’t think guns should be banned. In fact, I think people have a right to defend their own home, and in today’s dystopian proto-fascist USA, to defend themselves from the government. I just can’t see any reasonable objection to the regulation of this area, as long as the regulation is carried out fairly and not used to unfairly disadvantage certain groups like the voter ID laws Republicans use to target black voters. If the USA is fine with regulating who gets to own and drive a car or something like that, I don’t really see why regulation should be an issue.
I've been up on the mountain, and I've seen his wondrous grace,
I've sat there on the barstool and I've looked him in the face.
He seemed a little haggard, but it did not slow him down,
he was humming to the neon of the universal sound.
10.57am
9 March 2017
Offline I think the problem is that the right hates the left and the left hates the right causing so much political division that it’s hard to get things done.
In this case, the far left and right often have opposing views on the matter. On the far left, many see these incidents as a reason to ban guns all together, even if the shooting happened on a gun free zone. On the far right, many see these incidents as a reason to do the exact opposite, get more guns into people’s hands, even though the shooters often buy their guns legally or through a legal proxy such as a relative.
Because of all this, we have to debate whether to have gun control or whether to have guns when instead we should be debating how much gun control should we have.
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7.16pm
17 October 2013
Offline 
I come to see over the years that the left think people on the right are bad people……. The right think that the left’s ideologies are bad.
In these two recent shootings one was a right wing nut…….The other nut supported Elizabeth Warren……
As for guns themselves?……It has to be conceded that there are crazies all over the world, they are on the left, on the right or religious nutters. Men and adolescents with grudges, lonely and disaffected, angry with themselves and the world, possibly desensitised through endless violent video games…….It happens in New Zealand and Norway ……….And there are stabbing versions in Japan and China….. But we don’t see the same number of senseless mass shootings anywhere else……Availability of guns must be a factor.
Drugs another………
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Moderators
15 February 2015
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I’ve actually heard a considerable amount of evidence (including this) that video games lower violent and/or criminal tendencies, because they allow a harmless outlet for such tendencies.
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9.34pm
17 October 2013
Offline Beatlebug said
I’ve actually heard a considerable amount of evidence (including this) that video games lower violent and/or criminal tendencies, because they allow a harmless outlet for such tendencies.
Unsure if they reduce aggression or not but you’re probably right in as much as the video games often blamed are everywhere in the world whereas the mass shootings are not.
Only way we could tell which way round it is would be to clone The US’ gun prevalence into another equally country hooked on these games.
I really don’t have a clue what the solution is…….??…
One thing for sure is that ‘when the dog bites, when the bee stings…when you’re feeling sad’……Many find solace in blaming Trump as though these shootings never happened before he was president.
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Moderators
27 November 2016
Offline Just found this, and it’s already out of date. The US is actually at 254 already.
It’s not just about the second amendment. I do think there is a toxic culture brewing in the US, thanks to white supremacy. I think that is the cause of where a lot of the gun violence is coming from, something that exists much less in other places.
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7.07am
9 March 2017
Offline Those statistics are definitely a cause for concern, especially considering that 4 of those 7 non-US shootings took place around bordering countries and the one at Christchurch was clearly influenced by American politicians. However, i noticed that the Dayton shooter was left-wing, which would go against your suggestion that white supremacy is entirely to blame.
*A mass shooting is defined as a shooting where at least 4 people are shot, no one has to die for it to be considered a mass shooting.
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7.35am
Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline @The Hole Got Fixed didn’t say “that white supremacy is entirely to blame,” @Dark Overlord. Holey said, “I think that is the cause of where a lot of the gun violence is coming from.”
There is certainly no-doubt that white supremacist attacks are on the rise in the US, which is disturbing enough in itself.
And while the El Paso shooting was definitely political, with the Daytona shooter having a long history of mental illness, and having shot his sister, that seems likely another person who shouldn’t have had access to guns but was allowed to under the American system.
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10.29am
15 November 2018
Offline The Hole Got Fixed said
Just found this, and it’s already out of date. The US is actually at 254 already.It’s not just about the second amendment. I do think there is a toxic culture brewing in the US, thanks to white supremacy. I think that is the cause of where a lot of the gun violence is coming from, something that exists much less in other places.
I am ashamed to be an American.
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6.37pm
17 October 2013
Offline 50yearslate said
I am ashamed to be an American.
Despite the bleating of the liberal left you shouldn’t be ashamed of being an American……Although you’re free to be…You shouldn’t be (and here’s the rub) precisely because you’re free to be.
No country is without stain.
Anyway without America there’s be no Beatles…..We’d still be singing ‘Greensleves’
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Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline Are you suggesting that the radical right are proud that the US are smashing the competition for mass shootings, @Wigwam?
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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966
7.38pm
Moderators
15 February 2015
Offline One small correction to make, @Wigwam. Not the ‘liberal left’, they’re not liberal at all — the ‘illiberal’ or ‘regressive’ left. Quite different from the actual liberal left, which seems to be the silent/exhausted majority.
I’ll always be proud to be an American, and I’ll always be the first to admit when we’ve got problems. 
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7.46pm
17 October 2013
Offline Ron Nasty said
Are you suggesting that the radical right are proud that the US are smashing the competition for mass shootings, @Wigwam?
No….You are
8.06pm
Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline No, @Wigwam, I’m suggesting that wherever Americans sit on the political spectrum, and whatever their views on gun laws, very few Americans would say the mass shootings make them proud to be American.
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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966
8.10pm
17 October 2013
Offline Beatlebug said
One small correction to make, @Wigwam. Not the ‘liberal left’ – the ‘illiberal’ or ‘regressive’ left. Quite different from the actual liberal left, which seems to be the silent/exhausted majority.I’ll always be proud to be an American, and I’ll always be the first to admit when we’ve got problems.
I’ll accept the correction…..But…
The illiberal regressive left call themselves liberals…And claim that banner…..So it gets confusing.
Every country has problems…….But ask yourself have you ever met a white supremest………I doubt that there are many that actually ascribe themselves to that belief …….Out of a population of 330 million you’d struggle to fill a small college stadium.
The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality………An example to the world. You should all be proud of that.
America was born out of that basically British civil war that you call the War of Independence and immediately adopted the mantle of American exceptionalism. Philadelphia was for a time the hub of the civilised world…Philosophically and in political thought the greatest thinkers flocked there.
Tear down their statues, bescumber their portraits and murals by all means but consider the Orwellian peril.
“He who controls the past, controls the future; and he who controls the present, controls the past.”
Ask yourself ‘Why do the illiberal regressive left want you to hate yourselves?’
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17 October 2013
Offline Ron Nasty said
No, @Wigwam, I’m suggesting that wherever Americans sit on the political spectrum, and whatever their views on gun laws, very few Americans would say the mass shootings make them proud to be American.
I’d agree with that statement……Not with the earlier suggestion.
8.35pm
Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline @Wigwam said
The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality…
Wow! You must be watching a different channel to me because what I see is a country with huge racial tensions, with racially divisive language regularly used by the President, which much of his base support, along with wanting many of the gains made by the LGBTQ+ community reversed… If he gets Roe vs. Wade reversed by his Supreme Court, same-sex marriage will be his next battle-cry…
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The Beatles Bible 2020 non-Canon Poll Part One: 1958-1963 and Part Two: 1964-August 1966
9.29pm
Moderators
15 February 2015
Offline Ron Nasty said
@Wigwam said
The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality…Wow! You must be watching a different channel to me. . .
I’m sure you are. 
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9.57pm
15 November 2018
Offline Wigwam said
50yearslate said
I am ashamed to be an American.
Despite the bleating of the liberal left you shouldn’t be ashamed of being an American……Although you’re free to be…You shouldn’t be (and here’s the rub) precisely because you’re free to be.
No country is without stain.
Anyway without America there’s be no Beatles…..We’d still be singing ‘Greensleves’
I’m confused. Are you telling me not to be ashamed, or reminding me that I am free to be ashamed?
@Wigwam said
The US today is intermarried and it seems to me sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality…
Remind me how you know this and what makes you think it’s true? If the US was ‘sublimely tolerant of race and sexuality’ we’d have a significant drop in the numbers of hate crimes and controversy over civil rights laws, wouldn’t we? Not to mention the fact that our president would never have even been considered for election…
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11.01pm
17 October 2013
Offline Here’s a useful statistical breakdown on ‘Hate Crime’ over the last couple of decades……
https://ucr.fbi.gov/hate-crime
In 2016 about 7,106 hate crimes reported in the US……The headlines scream ‘rise in hate crimes in 2017’…….The rise was to about 7,125.
I agree if you watch most networks and read most newspapers the perception is that Hate crime, because they talk in percentages without revealing the total numbers is massively on the rise…..Figures for these years show it isn’t.
But up to you what conclusions you draw from the figures…..
As to your confusion………If you feel the country’s collective conscience should feel shame I’m saying you’re free to.
Personally I take responsibility for my own actions…….I can’t fix other people.
As for Trump’s election victory?…….It may be that his voters are deplorables and bad people. I got the feeling however, that Americans were fed-up with politicians who campaign in poetry and govern in prose and weasel words.
Again you’re free to your view.
But without categorising me as a deplorable ……..or deficient mentally and morally…….. allow me to hold if I may a different view. Diversity of thought is perhaps more of a litmus test of what it means to be living in a truly free country than almost anything else…….
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