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6.16pm
17 October 2013
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QuarryMan said
Interesting video @Wigwam . Just goes to show that not every issue is as transparent as it might first appear.I have little sympathy for either the MAGA hat wearing kids or the Israelites, since both were acting in a pretty antagonistic way. Quite sad that mr Phillip’s song, which was seemingly welcomed at first by the kids, turned into a confrontation with some chanting ‘build the wall’ while that one kid faced him off with that horrible smirk on his face.
If as is being said today that ‘drummer’ approached and stood in smirker’s face and smirker merely stood his ground then the abuse smirker has received I believe is very unfair.
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Beatlebug, Ms. Lane10.44am
26 January 2017
Offline I wouldn’t be so sure. That isn’t the face of someone scared, or someone trying to stand their ground. The kid knew he was being filmed and knew the way those around him were antagonising Mr. Phillips.
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11.12am
Moderators
15 February 2015
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Okay, so I watched both videos, and I honestly can’t see what all the fuss is about…
What went on between the old man and the young one seemed to me like a distinct lack of communication in what had become a tense situation (thanks primarily to the Black Israelites), but I definitely wouldn’t have called it racist in any way. It wasn’t even that aggressive compared to what else was going on. (The Black Israelites were the ones being racist and aggressive.) I mean, it was rutabaga-quality cell-phone video, for heaven’s sake — you can believe you see what you want to see in the young man’s expression, but no one can know for certain what was going on there — least of all the participants themselves… I think it was just some silly happening which wouldn’t even be a big deal if it weren’t for the overly inflammatory nature of the Internet these dayses.
This is nothing to do with politics, it’s just how I perceived the situation. *prepares to get shot down*
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12.31pm
1 December 2009
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Beatlebug, unfortunately, the fact that those boys made an extra effort to wear their MAGA hats and shirts to a trip to DC makes it political.
GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
1.35pm
Moderators
15 February 2015
Offline First of all, you misread my post. What I was saying was that my take on events had nothing to do with my political biases, it was just how I saw things.
Second of all, why the hell would they not want to wear their MAGA hats and shirts to DC? If I were a staunch Trump supporter and I went to visit the Capital City, I’d probably do the same. Kind of like wearing my Pink Floyd shirt to the Roger Waters concert, except with a greater chance of getting verbally abused on the street. (Good times.) 
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7.47pm
17 October 2013
Offline QuarryMan said
Interesting video @Wigwam . Just goes to show that not every issue is as transparent as it might first appear.I have little sympathy for either the MAGA hat wearing kids or the Israelites, since both were acting in a pretty antagonistic way. Quite sad that mr Phillip’s song, which was seemingly welcomed at first by the kids, turned into a confrontation with some chanting ‘build the wall’ while that one kid faced him off with that horrible smirk on his face.
AppleScruffJunior said
^The Germans have a great word for that 14 year old edge lord and his sickly grin “Backpfeifengesicht”- a face that needs a smack.
George Orwell also had a word for that in 1984….’Face crime’ it was called…A simple facial tick or the wrong expression could get you carted away.
Mr Phillips (who wasn’t surrounded he marched right at the group)…..says when he returned from Vietnam he was spat upon……. Disgraceful ………especially as he never served in Vietnam.
But doesn’t matter. The crime of wearing a MAGA, hat being white, Catholic, pro-life and a male is enough to rush to a lynching ………
Consider the difference if the children had been black and they were being approached by a rhinestone cowboy singing “take me Home Country Road’……
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Beatlebug5.43pm
1 December 2009
Offline But doesn’t matter. The crime of wearing a MAGA, hat being white, Catholic, pro-life and a male is enough to rush to a lynching ………
Yes, because Nick Sandman was *literally* dragged away and murdered by an angry mob.
And sorry, I’m not sure I fully understand your Rhinestone Cowboy analogy.
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50yearslateGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
10.43pm
17 October 2013
Offline vonbontee said
But doesn’t matter. The crime of wearing a MAGA, hat being white, Catholic, pro-life and a male is enough to rush to a lynching ………
Yes, because Nick Sandman was *literally* dragged away and murdered by an angry mob.
And sorry, I’m not sure I fully understand your Rhinestone Cowboy analogy.
He was threatened with violence, he was searched out…..his family and others with the same name, same town called up threatened with death threats, there’s a long list……Even some Disney corporation mogul rushed to outdo others, if he couldn’t be first he could outdo them by being more extreme, picturing the entire group being put through a wood shredder ………….That is disgusting……There’s a number of celebs who offered similarly disgusting threats. Each trying to out virtue signal the other in their extremes……..have a read…I’m sure you will disapprove to.
Some of it below.
https://www.rt.com/usa/449368-…..maga-kids/
https://www.washingtonpost.com…..c8088b69f9
As for not understanding my reversed colour, reversed places analogy…….Employ logic and empathy…..Then consider which group is being privileged here.
I’ll give you enough credit to believe you’ve already gotten there, and are just being deliberately obtuse. You might disagree that’s fine….You can say my analogy is crazy…… I won’t be offended……..But just say why!
Understanding, as I’m sure you do your avatar that’s based on a painting by Magritte will help, ‘the conflict between the visible that is hidden and the visible that is present’…… partially applies here too.
……….The 30 second visible clip that people pounced on and are loathe to reassess now that the ‘present visible no longer hides the hidden visible.’
For me…
I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched…..(look up metaphor).
Magritte’s picture is called “The Son Of Man’……For better and sometimes worse we are all that……
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Beatlebug10.48pm
Moderators
27 November 2016
Offline Wigwam said
I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched…..(look up metaphor).
Well, if they subscribe to the same thing that pretty much the rest of the world subscribes to (treat others the way you want to be treated), then I suppose they’re not doing anything wrong if they want to be treated like s**t.
So if you think their actions were right, you can’t say that their punishment is wrong. They treated someone like s**t, they deserve to be treated like s**t.
But really, peace and love guys, that’s what the world needs.
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10.52pm
17 October 2013
Offline The Hole Got Fixed said
Wigwam said
I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched…..(look up metaphor).
Well, if they subscribe to the same thing that pretty much the rest of the world subscribes to (treat others the way you want to be treated), then I suppose they’re not doing anything wrong if they want to be treated like s**t.
So if you think their actions were right, you can’t say that their punishment is wrong. They treated someone like s**t, they deserve to be treated like s**t.
But really, peace and love guys, that’s what the world needs.
And that’s what you example here?
10.59pm
Moderators
27 November 2016
Offline Wigwam said
And that’s what you example here?
I’m sorry I don’t understand that sentence and can’t infer what you mean by that.
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2.59am
1 December 2009
Offline I understand *metaphor* fine, Atlas, I’m questioning your word choice. “Lynching” as in “public internet shaming of a white kid”…I just don’t see how using that particular cliche is helpful here, unless you’re being ironic, since traditional lynching involved the white people being the perpetrators, rather than the recipients.
Death threats, threats of violence, these are serious things and should be investigated. The kid doesn’t deserve that at all, no kid does, this shouldn’t need to be said. There are some really awful people out there, who knew? (Like those Black Hebrews – buncha jerks!)
And no, sorry; I’m not trying to be obtuse. Your analogy isn’t easy for me to parse: Are the black kids wearing MAGA hats? If so, why? And even with that answered, I can’t possibly imagine how they’d react to a white guy in rhinestones singing John Denver. (Laugh? Ignore him?)
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WigwamGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
3.30am
17 October 2013
Offline Wigwam said
The Hole Got Fixed said
Wigwam said
I feel sorry for these kids who did nothing wrong, but were tried, convicted and lynched…..(look up metaphor).
Well, if they subscribe to the same thing that pretty much the rest of the world subscribes to (treat others the way you want to be treated), then I suppose they’re not doing anything wrong if they want to be treated like s**t.
So if you think their actions were right, you can’t say that their punishment is wrong. They treated someone like s**t, they deserve to be treated like s**t.
But really, peace and love guys, that’s what the world needs.
And that’s what you example here?
Do you think your post, especially the part I’ve highlighted, “They treated someone like s**t, they deserve to be treated like s**t.” echos the meaning of your last sentence……..‘But really, peace and love guys, that’s what the world needs.’
Call me old fashioned but to me they seem to jar…..? Hopefully you get my gist..
Apart from that……..The video footage I’ve watched proves to me that the boys didn’t treat Mr Phillips, or the ‘cracker’ calling Black Israelite racists, ‘like s**t’
The 5 black racists were goading and insulting the boys, particularly a black student anongst the school group…….The boys did not respond in any way other than with the school sport’s chant.
Mr Phillips got in the boy’s space, banging his drum right in a young child’s face. I’m not saying he treated the boy like s**t….but he was the aggressor. The boy only stood his ground and smiled.
Can you point out to me where he treated Mr Phillips ‘like s**t’……If not you really should consider retracting that accusation.
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Beatlebug3.56am
17 October 2013
Offline vonbontee said
I understand *metaphor* fine, Atlas, I’m questioning your word choice. “Lynching” as in “public internet shaming of a white kid”…I just don’t see how using that particular cliche is helpful here, unless you’re being ironic, since traditional lynching involved the white people being the perpetrators, rather than the recipients.Death threats, threats of violence, these are serious things and should be investigated. The kid doesn’t deserve that at all, no kid does, this shouldn’t need to be said. There are some really awful people out there, who knew? (Like those Black Hebrews – buncha jerks!)
And no, sorry; I’m not trying to be obtuse. Your analogy isn’t easy for me to parse: Are the black kids wearing MAGA hats? If so, why? And even with that answered, I can’t possibly imagine how they’d react to a white guy in rhinestones singing John Denver. (Laugh? Ignore him?)
6.31am
9 March 2017
Offline I disagree with what Nick Sandman did, but i definitely agree with you that the violence and death threats were wrong as well.
But i’d like to point out that conservatives do the same thing and when they do it, it’s often far worse. Take the Sandy Hook shootings for example, a bunch of conservatives decided to harass and even threaten the parents who’s children died in the shooting (like as if they didn’t have enough grief) because Alex Jones said it was fake and people took him seriously.
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8.51am
17 October 2013
Offline I’ve just read something of the aftermath to Sandy Hook I knew nothing about it…………Wow words fail me. These people really should be tried in a court and if found guilty of such nasty harassment they should suffer the full force of the law. Sick. Those poor parents. Shocking!
But again…….You say..
“I disagree with what Nick Sandman did, but i definitely agree with you that the violence and death threats were wrong as well.
I really appreciate that you’re trying to be impartial…..But what did this young boy do that by any measure the death threats balanced out. “Wrong as well’ ….as well as what? I didn’t see that he did anything wrong…….He stood his ground and smiled, (smirked if you prefer), through a drum being bashed in his face, by some toothless old man with an agenda who’d invaded his personal space……..
That’s all that happened…….The old guy with the drum didn’t do anymore than advance on the kid and bang a drum in his face….The kid didn’t do anymore than stand still and smile. End of! Or should have been.
The threats of violence, the shaming slurs, the death threats were out of all proportion to anything that occurred………There isn’t any equivalence.
Now that a fuller picture has emerged I’d have thought the haters would just held their hands up and said, ‘sorry, I was hasty.’ Or ‘I was misled, the optics were bad’…………But I’ve read some of the retractions and they aren’t retractions at all……
Ah well….. no point going on and on.
Thanks for your input Dark Lord.
Hope you managed to watch that Thai advert I posted….I reckon it’s brilliant.
Cheers
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Beatlebug1.37pm
Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline So, Trump has caved, agreeing to reopen the Government for three weeks (until 15 February) without having got his money for his wall, but instead an agreement that Republicans and Democrats will enter discussions on a border security package.
That is as always should have been, policy argued over and debated, rather than forced through with a gun held to the heads of millions of Americans.
Obviously, he’ll try to claim that his agreeing to something that’s been on the table for weeks is a victory for him.
Of course, tomorrow’s newspapers would have had the Roger Stone (close advisor to DT) arrest and charging over the Russia probe on the front page, which will likely get less attention now the Government is to reopen.
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1.38pm
9 March 2017
Offline What i was trying to say is that what Nick did was f****d up. However, the threats he received were not justified since hurting people based on their political views is wrong. I’m sorry i gave you the wrong idea, i would never condone that sort of behavior, groups like ANTIFA and the Proud Boys genuinely piss me off.
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1.44pm
9 March 2017
Offline That’s great @Ron Nasty not as good as Trump just giving up but it’s great that these government workers have to suffer any longer. Not to mention, this is a perfect opportunity to get laws changed, maybe we’ll agree on building the wall on the condition that marijuana is legalized nationwide or something like that.
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2.00pm
1 December 2009
Offline I do appreciate seeing the more complete visual record of the events. It does appear that Sandman may indeed be far less of a jackass than some of his classmates. His isn’t necessarily the face that people should forever associate with this incident.
Threats of violence are always awful, no need for you or I to keep emphasizing that. As for the online shame and scorn, he’s got a public forum now, so he can either proudly revel in his having triggered the libs, or do some thinking and soul-searching about his role in the events. He’s still young, his brain is unformed, his life has just begun, etc.
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WigwamGEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
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