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8.02pm
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29 August 2013
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meanmistermustard said
Haven’t seen any of the game except for the goals. Just gone by reports, post match comments and what LvG said. There was said to be an improvement in the second half but not sure if that was down to Rooney or that it was such an atrocious first half display it could only get better.
Pretty much the latter – totally outplayed across the park in the first half; plus Stoke taking their foot off the gas peddle slightly.
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8.40pm
17 October 2013
Offline Could it possibly be that the decision to drop Rooney for so important a game backfired?
He’s the captain and it may have looked to the other players…as it looked to me that LVG was deflecting the blame away from himself. If the players did indeed feel that it would be morale sapping.
10.39pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline Wigwam said
Could it possibly be that the decision to drop Rooney for so important a game backfired?He’s the captain and it may have looked to the other players…as it looked to me that LVG was deflecting the blame away from himself. If the players did indeed feel that it would be morale sapping.
It would have made absolutely no difference – I am 100% confident about that. It is well past time he was dropped – he has been a nightmare this season – a complete and utter waste of a position.
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11.00pm
17 October 2013
Offline So they played better without him?
11.07pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline Wigwam said
So they played better without him?
Just saying it has made very little difference either way this season; they have been very ordinary in most games and he has been particularly poor. I’m not sure why but his touch has completely deserted him – pass him the ball and more than likely it will bounce off him and end up with the opposition.
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4.32am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline The issue with Rooney is that his reputation is so high that if he doesn’t play and Man U are poor then it’s supposedly down to the opposition being boosted by his absence (or one reason). However his form has been missing for so much of the last 12 months that if he does play he’s a liability.
LvG should have dropped Rooney 3 months ago when Man U were grinding wins out whilst he was rotten to send a message out to everyone that if you were poor you’d get dropped. Instead he kept getting a game and backed by his manager whilst others would get publicly criticised and benched for one mistake sending out the message that some players could get away with it whilst others lost their place for less.
Its a complete mess and no wonder most of the team look lost and appear to have no idea if they should try but then maybe make a mistake or just not bother going beyond the minimum requested of them. The reaction by the players for the Stoke second when nobody moved an inch to close down the ball was startling.
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trcanberra"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
5.55am
17 October 2013
Offline MMM said: “The issue with Rooney is that his reputation is so high that if he doesn’t play and Man U are poor then it’s supposedly down to the opposition being boosted by his absence (or one reason). However his form has been missing for so much of the last 12 months that if he does play he’s a liability.”
Surely there’s a contradiction embedded in that statement?
But anyway to recap….. you think there’s a number of reasons for Man U’s demise….Reasons that you and tr could foresee but that LVG and the last manager were blind to. And that the one most significant factor is Rooney’s ‘lack of form’ and that Man U’s problems can largely be laid at his over-rated feet……?
As I said the good thing about sports debates is there’s usually an answer………..Time will tell.
Time isn’t kind to strikers…….Shearer retired from internationals at 29. I don’t know of course because I’m not a manager but I don’t think Rooney’s done yet because he perhaps has more he can offer a team playing in midfield positions……
Anyway I hope LVG goes and Rooney stays.
6.59am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Wigwam said
So you think it’s Rooney’s fault and Man U’s woes are largely due to his lack of form……?
No. There are a number of reasons for Man U’s problems this season. Rooney’s form has been a factor but so has having no one of any Premier League experience and pedigree to come in and replace him but other players have also not reached the levels expected. The transfer policy last summer when no proven out-and-out striker came in to help out as well as at least one center half whilst a number of players left; some weren’t good enough for Man U and had to go but a few could have stayed even for one more season; LvG clearly didnt rate Hernandez but he might have helped out up front. Injuries have played a big part as well at times.
However a large factor has been LvG’s management approach and tactics where its blatantly obvious that mistakes are [generally] not tolerated, ball possession is key, players must stick exactly to the roles dictated and not deviate (so little to next to none initiative or improvisation ever). All its bred is dull, bland, boring, slow, unexciting, risk-free, ultra-safe football that is built from endless passing in areas the opposition aren’t worried about hence the lack of goals, lack of shots on target, lack of confidence and lack of fear factor. Man U should have qualified from their Champions League group but they played it safe, dropped too many points and got knocked out, same now in the league. Confidence has evaporated.
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trcanberra"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
7.09am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Well here’s a new one for the record books. Wigwam’s altered post now reads
MMM said: “The issue with Rooney is that his reputation is so high that if he doesn’t play and Man U are poor then it’s supposedly down to the opposition being boosted by his absence (or one reason). However his form has been missing for so much of the last 12 months that if he does play he’s a liability.”
Surely there’s a contradiction embedded in that statement?
But anyway to recap….. you think there’s a number of reasons for Man U’s demise….Reasons that you and tr could foresee but that LVG and the last manager were blind to. And that the one most significant factor is Rooney’s ‘lack of form’ and that Man U’s problems can largely be laid at his over-rated feet……?
As I said the good thing about sports debates is there’s usually an answer………..Time will tell.
Time isn’t kind to strikers…….Shearer retired from internationals at 29. I don’t know of course because I’m not a manager but I don’t think Rooney’s done yet because he perhaps has more he can offer a team playing in midfield positions……
Anyway I hope LVG goes and Rooney stays.
yet if I quote it directly using the button it still appears as
Wigwam said
So you think it’s Rooney’s fault and Man U’s woes are largely due to his lack of form……?
Anyway.
Many could see storm clouds on the horizon. De Gea alone saved them so many points last season and it was essential they kept him (something they did right no matter how they managed to) as so often last year they were awful and the football was bad. A fourth place finish and dull ground-out wins papered over many cracks.
"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
8.10am
17 October 2013
Offline Sorry my tinkering overlapped your prompt reply. You shouldn’t read anymore into it……. or try suggest that there’s more to it than that.
Glad to see it’s not all being laid at Rooney’s feet though I conceded that in my edited post………We agree on practically everything else.
I still think Rooney has a role to play and can be a valued contributor to MU and England……You and Tr don’t. We’ll see!
But out of interest, if my earlier post is the latest entry into the record books…..What record books are you keeping?…….
This post has been edited.
2.38pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline “I still think Rooney has a role to play and can be a valued contributor to MU and England“
Possibly – but the fact that he is continually selected when not contributing for lengthy periods is what has annoyed me – he should have been benched – but as noted by mmm there is no one left to replace him.
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7.13pm
17 October 2013
Offline I think I tend nowadays towards having more loyalty to players I like than to any Premiership teams…….(I’d make a terrible BPL manager)…..Although the teams of one sort or another that I did manage……including football ones did very well. In a world of limited resources, organisation, motivation, faith and loyalty can get you a long way. Who fancied playing Jack’s Republic of Ireland? And look how good Clough was at actually making silk-purses.
Now for the rich clubs ready made mercenaries are a phone call away.
In the same way that one of you wants things to come to a head and Man U’s losing streak continue so that the boil is lanced…….I feel the same about English teams in Europe. I’m glad that even with so many foreign brought in stars they are losing their dominance. I’m heartened to see little Leicester kicking arse with a balance of cut prices and homegrowns…….De Costa cost more than the whole of the Leicester side
I hope for the best for Man U…….They are the only team I’m interested in outside of the England team. And for both of those teams sakes I hope Rooney’s fire is rekindled and that he’s not discarded yet……You don’t become a bad player overnight…..He still has something to offer.
We’ll see.
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trcanberra4.11am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Rooney isn’t there out of loyalty, if Man U hadn’t of thrown cash at him every time he’d sulked he’d have left for Chelsea or abroad quicker than it takes him to control the ball nowadays. Maybe if he had left 3 seasons ago he might have more fire in him and not be in such a dire team in such dire form.
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trcanberra"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
3.07pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline Another scintillating performance from the lads (how many without a win now?) as Rooney put away two guilt-edged chances to score in his usual predatory style.
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3.22pm
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline A better performance than the last half dozen, admittedly against a Chelsea side who came for a 0 – 0.
"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
3.35pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline The truly annoying thing is the clown coming out and wondering how we failed to score.
Leaving the team with only one sadly out of form senior striker have anything to do with it?
Idiot!
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6.18pm
17 October 2013
Offline meanmistermustard said
Rooney isn’t there out of loyalty, if Man U hadn’t of thrown cash at him every time he’d sulked he’d have left for Chelsea or abroad quicker than it takes him to control the ball nowadays.
I didn’t say he was and it wasn’t the point I was making.
I thought against Chelsea, Man U played better. Rooney looked more hungry and keen to get forward. To an extent the shackles were off and the whole team responded. However, they still needed some world class goalkeeping to avoid a defeat that might have been pivotal for the manager.
I didn’t think LVG would survive this game……He has and there’s that, (annoying to some), ray of hope.
Perhaps the decision to sack him has been made………? Certainly sacking him now offers the opportunity for Jose…..or Pepe to take over, that window of opportunity will close soon. Perhaps he’ll be given more time? Perhaps Fergie will return as caretaker? Perhaps Rooney (as both of you seem to want), has played his last ever game for Man U?
I don’t know……..We’ll have to watch and see.
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trcanberra4.05pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline Well, Rooney had a decent game for once – and we scored some goals.
And gave them away and slipped to 6th spot.
At this rate we will miss out on Europe next season and continue our slide to mediocrity – do the owners really want us to become the next Liverpool?
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5.45pm
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline At this rate you’ll be envious of Liverpool.
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trcanberra"I told you everything I could about me, Told you everything I could" ('Before Believing' - Emmylou Harris)
5.48pm
Reviewers
29 August 2013
Offline meanmistermustard said
At this rate you’ll be envious of Liverpool.
I AM envious of their new manager, he was the one I wanted after Moyes.
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