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7.03pm
14 June 2016
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So not long ago I was listening to the interview from Paul’s Memory Almost Full bonus edition. In it Paul talks about each of the songs on the album. He says the “The End Of The End ” was meant to be the last track of the album, but later it was decided that “Nod Your Head” should come after “TEOTE” so that the album didn’t end with a sad song.
I wondered if there was a similar reason for why Help ! ends with “Dizzy Miss Lizzy ” instead of “Yesterday “. Granted “Yesterday ” isn’t quite as depressing as “TEOTE”, which is a song about death, but it still is a somber song where Paul is wishing for it to be yesterday.
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7.20pm
9 March 2017
Offline It’s very possible, I also think this is the reason why Green Day placed Prosthetic Head after Good Riddance (Time Of Your Life) on their Nimrod album. I think it would’ve been a terrible idea to end Help ! with Yesterday and The Beatles did the right thing, it really pisses me off when an album ends with a sad song, I’m fine with a relaxed song ending an album (like A Day In The Life ) or a power ballad (like In The Lap Of The Gods Revisited), but not a flat out sad song and especially not if that song is the most overplayed song The Beatles have ever released.
The sad part is that some albums do end with sad songs, often sad songs that suck, The Beatles ends with Good Night , News Of The World ends with My Melancholy Blues, and The Works ended with Is This The World We Created. If these 3 albums ended with Hey Jude , We Will Rock You and We Are The Champions, and Hammer To Fall instead of those terribly depressing songs, they would be better albums and those were just examples, there are more albums where they end on an unfortunate note.
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7.49pm
14 June 2016
Offline Although Yesterday wasn’t overplayed when Help ! was being put together, so that isn’t really relevant.
Also(reguardless of your feelings of Good Night and Ringo’s vocals
) Good Night isn’t really a sad song. It’s a lullaby, unless you consider sleep a sad thing, which not many do.
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7.50pm
14 December 2009
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Yeah, there may be something to that. The first two albums and BFS both ended with rip-roaring rockers, and the fact that AHDN closes with an ambiguous, somewhat melancholy tune always makes me vaguely uneasy. (The fact that “I’ll Be Back ” is one of the very few Beatles album-closers that ends with an artificial fade has a lot to do with that – it leaves the situation unresolved, up in the air, wavering between major and minor keys, and the album follows suit.)
Personally, I wish “Lizzie” didn’t close the album, but that’s because it’s probably my least favourite, or second least. I don’t think it stands up to “Twist And Shout ” or “Money” as far as rockers goes; really, I’d like to re-sequence that whole side. “I’ve Just Seen A Face ” would make a cool closer, I think – the first ten seconds tricking us into thinking the album will end with a little midtempo drumless thing, and then suddenly a very fast bluegrass jam! High energy!
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8.10pm
Reviewers
17 December 2012
Offline Another aspect to consider is that the majority of the albums finish with a John showcase. 7 of their first 8 albums finished on a John song, in one way or another.
Yes, A Day In The Life is John and Paul, and Good Night is sung by Ringo, but it is interesting how John grabbed so many album closers before he lost interest.
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9.13pm
9 March 2017
Offline The reason John ended most of The Beatles early albums was that he was the main singer in the band. Contrary to popular belief, The Beatles had a lead vocalist and it was John, just look at the comparison:
John 7
Paul 4
George 2
Ringo 1
John 7
Paul 3
George 3
Ringo 1
John 9
Paul 3
George 1
Ringo 0
Beatles For Sale (counting Baby’s In Black as 1 for John and 1 for Paul, counting Words Of Love as 1 for John, George, and Paul)
John 9
Paul 5
George 2
Ringo 1
Help !
John 6
Paul 5
George 2
Ringo 1
Rubber Soul (counting Wait as 1 for John and Paul)
John 7
Paul 5
George 2
Ringo 1
John 5
Paul 5
George 3
Ringo 1
As you can see, the rule gradually got ignored but it was definitely there at first. Also, A Day In The Life is John, all Paul does is sing the bridge and the reason I consider Good Night a sad song is because it’s pretty much telling me to stop listening and go to sleep, something I do not want to hear from a classic rock album.
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11.06pm
11 November 2010
Offline That’s an interesting idea. I never thought about it before.
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11.22pm
Moderators
27 November 2016
Offline I’ve never realised just how much John sang! Thanks.
Interesting to see that ratio, as I always thought Paul was technically the better singer of the group.
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10.44am
9 March 2017
Offline I didn’t say John was the better singer, I just said that John was the main singer for The Beatles during their early career. I found this out when I was trying to find out who sang more, John or Paul. Also, either John or John and Paul together sang on the singles, Paul didn’t get a solo lead vocal spot on a single until She’s A Woman and didn’t get his own A-side in the UK until We Can Work It Out and Paperback Writer . The Beatles did phase this out though and Sgt. Pepper was their first album where Paul sings more than John. I wonder if @Ron Nasty was aware of this. As for who’s the best singer in The Beatles, everyone but Ringo.
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5.52am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Dark Overlord said
I didn’t say John was the better singer, I just said that John was the main singer for The Beatles during their early career. I found this out when I was trying to find out who sang more, John or Paul. Also, either John or John and Paul together sang on the singles, Paul didn’t get a solo lead vocal spot on a single until She’s A Woman and didn’t get his own A-side in the UK until We Can Work It Out and Paperback Writer . The Beatles did phase this out though and Sgt. Pepper was their first album where Paul sings more than John. I wonder if @Ron Nasty was aware of this. As for who’s the best singer in The Beatles, everyone but Ringo.
Paul’s first solo single vocal was the A-side ‘Can’t Buy Me Love ‘ in March 1964.
That means the first 6 a-side singles were evenly split.
Joint: ‘Love Me Do ‘, ‘From Me To You ‘, ‘She Loves You ‘, ‘I Want To Hold You Hand’.
John: ‘Please Please Me ‘.
Paul: ‘Can’t Buy Me Love ‘.
John then took the next 4 (‘A Hard Day’s Night ‘, ‘I Feel Fine ‘, ‘Ticket To Ride ‘, ‘Help !’) and wasn’t until December 1965 when Paul reappeared with ‘We Can Work It Out ‘ on the double A-side with John’s ‘Day Tripper ‘.
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10.35am
26 January 2017
Offline If you’ve ever seen Jerry Seinfeld’s show Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee, he has Bill Maher on, who argues that Paul’s increasing number of a-side singles is what caused John to get jealous and distance himself from the group. I disagree, but if you continue the singles chronology from where mmm left off, Paul gets Paperback Writer , Penny Lane , Lady Madonna , Hey Jude , and Get Back all in a row.
My reasoning behind this shift is the difference in the innovation being done by Paul and John. While John was making huge changes to rock and pop music, they were riskier and less commercially minded, whereas Paul never lost his pop chops, even while trying to push boundaries like John. Paul was just able to make more hits.
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10.37am
9 March 2017
Offline I forgot about Can’t Buy Me Love . Still, John was the main lead singer of The Beatles until about 1966. Also, I always thought that From Me To You and She Loves You had points where it was just John singing, nice to know that it’s a shared lead.
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11.50am
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
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sir walter raleigh said
If you’ve ever seen Jerry Seinfeld’s show Comedians In Cars Getting Coffee, he has Bill Maher on, who argues that Paul’s increasing number of a-side singles is what caused John to get jealous and distance himself from the group. I disagree, but if you continue the singles chronology from where mmm left off, Paul gets Paperback Writer , Penny Lane , Lady Madonna , Hey Jude , and Get Back all in a row.My reasoning behind this shift is the difference in the innovation being done by Paul and John. While John was making huge changes to rock and pop music, they were riskier and less commercially minded, whereas Paul never lost his pop chops, even while trying to push boundaries like John. Paul was just able to make more hits.
‘Penny Lane ‘ was a double A-side with ‘Strawberry Fields’. ‘All You Need Is Love ‘ was before ‘Hello Goodbye ‘ which is missing from the run.
I agree that John was making less radio friendly music. ‘I Am The Walrus ‘ is a far more progressive recording whereas ‘Hello, Goodbye ‘ is far more commercial, same with ‘Hey Jude ‘ over ‘Revolution ‘.
Just from ‘The Ballad Of John And Yoko ‘ you can see where John’s interest went from ’68 onwards however; that he had two a-sides from ‘All You Need Is Love ‘ and one was pulled to generate finance for Apple is quite something considering how much of a contest it was in the beginning with Paul.
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11.05pm
15 March 2017
Offline I agree with you that Dizzy Miss Lizzy was most likely selected as the album closer because it is more upbeat.
Some people don’t like that it closes the album but I don’t have a problem with it and I like the contrast between Yesterday and Dizzy Miss Lizzy .
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6.57am
9 March 2017
Offline I wonder what would’ve happened if they ended the album with Yesterday instead, how people would’ve reacted.
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5.44pm
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Dark Overlord said
I wonder what would’ve happened if they ended the album with Yesterday instead, how people would’ve reacted.
The announcement of a Beatles split – a Paul song with no other Beatles on the track where he is singing about the end of a relationship.
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9.13pm
10 August 2011
Offline Very interesting digression on the lead singer(s) in the band.
@Dark Overlord
In 1965 the Beatles could do no wrong. Ending with “Yesterday ” would not have made a rat’s ass bit of difference.
Considering the huuuuge hit it became (sound like anyone we know?) you can argue that it would have looked brilliant to end the album with such a tasty morsel, downer or not.
That said, as noted above, neither the Beatles nor the record label had the slightest clue the song would ever be a monster hit. It wasn’t even released as a single in the UK (right?). A song with just one Beatle and an acoustic guitar? what do you do with a song like that. You tuck it in towards the end of an album, that’s what you do with it.
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10.14am
9 March 2017
Offline The reason they did that is because that singles weren’t supposed to be on albums unless if it’s a soundtrack album and the single is in the movie as well. The only exceptions to this rule that were released while The Beatles were making albums are Eleanor Rigby /Yellow Submarine and Come Together /Something , oddly both double A sides.
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4.42pm
Reviewers
Moderators
1 May 2011
Offline Dark Overlord said
The reason they did that is because that singles weren’t supposed to be on albums unless if it’s a soundtrack album and the single is in the movie as well. The only exceptions to this rule that were released while The Beatles were making albums are Eleanor Rigby /Yellow Submarine and Come Together /Something , oddly both double A sides.
Both sides of the ‘Love Me Do ‘ & ‘Please Please Me ‘ singles are the two others, tho you can argue that ‘Love Me Do ‘ is not as they are different versions.
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4.53pm
1 December 2009
Offline Also, it was the very beginning of their recording career, and you can’t blame them for wanting to get an album out as soon as possible – even if it meant including a recent single or two.
GEORGE: In fact, The Detroit Sound. JOHN: In fact, yes. GEORGE: In fact, yeah. Tamla-Motown artists are our favorites. The Miracles. JOHN: We like Marvin Gaye. GEORGE: The Impressions PAUL & GEORGE: Mary Wells. GEORGE: The Exciters. RINGO: Chuck Jackson. JOHN: To name but eighty.
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